We are trying not to repeat the mistakes we made in China in India: Sowind chief financial officer Alain Sponem

Sowind Group CFO and COO Alain Sponem says India is an important growth market for Swiss luxury watch brands Ulysse Nardin and Girard Perregaux.

Luxury watch makers around the world have been looking to India, as growth slows in markets like the US but also China. In September alone, two Swiss watch makers have opened stores in India: Sowind Group-owned Ulysse Nardin opened its first standalone India store in Gurugram, and Breitling opened its sixth store in India in Coimbatore. This is not surprising, given the numbers. According to reports, industry body Federation of the Swiss Watch Industry confirmed in July that the value of Swiss watch exports to India exceeded 104 million Swiss francs (over Rs 1,150 crore) in the first five months of 2025 - nearly 10 million Swiss francs more than the corresponding period in 2024; a year when overall Swiss watch exports to India were in the range of Rs 2,600 crore.

In September 2024, Bloomberg reported that Sowind was among 40 watchmakers in the key watch-manufacturing district of Switzerland who had requested government aid, to avoid permanent layoffs as demand from China fell after three straight years of post-pandemic growth.

Sowind Group chief financial and chief operating officer (CFO and COO) Alain Sponem told Moneycontrol that India's rising disposable income and younger population are, inarguably, big pull factors for his company. He added that India's horological history and the value we place on time here are further points of convergence for Sowind, the parent company of Ulysse Nardin and Girard-Perregaux following a management buyout in 2022. Before that, the brands were owned by French company Kering which has luxury brands like Gucci, YSL, Alexander McQueen and Balenciaga, among others, in its portfolio.

Over a Zoom call ahead of the store launch, Sponem talked about Ulysse Nardin's latest Freak X Crystalium watch unveiled at the Geneva Watch Days 2025 exhibition; its new 583 sq. ft boutique in Gurugram that is expected to retail collections like the Blast, Diver, Freak X, Freak One, and Marine; the company's strategy for India and revenue expectations from Asia; and the 25th year celebration of its signature Freak X series with carrousel movement that's coming up next year. Edited excerpts:

You just launched the USD 42,000 (roughly Rs 37.2 lakh) Freak X Crystalium at Geneva Watch Days (September 4-7, 2025)...

Yes, every piece of Freak X Crystalium is unique because you cannot reproduce, exactly, the way the crystal is forming. (The golden dial of the watch comprises vapour-deposits of crystalium, a variant of palladium.)

Strategically, and from your point of view as CFO of parent company Sowind, how do you view this 50-piece limited edition, given that the Freak X watches are among your more expensive watches?

When it comes to luxury, it's very difficult to manage brands only by financial metrics. You need to have some gut-feeling and some conviction too. To Ulysse Nardin, innovation is DNA. So you need to do everything possible to make sure that innovation gets the right level of resources, even if it means tightening up the bolts and screws everywhere else. So that's the first thing: the prioritization of what is important for the brand, which also helps us to make the financial decisions.

The second thing is that we have developed a culture of trust with the technical teams. Now, if you give autonomy and independence to somebody, it will also live with the idea of accountable for this freedom, right? And this is exactly what happens with the technical teams. They are very aware of the resources of the company. And if they see that a project is maybe going off-road, they will themselves raise a red flag and say, OK, we need to discuss, and then we discuss. And if we need to unplug the project, we will unplug. So it's an iterative process between financial control and trust in the team.

The brand is 179 years old. It was acquired by Kering briefly and then three years ago, you had a management buyout led by CEO Patrick Pruniaux. What does that do to your confidence, knowing that Kering is no longer there to back your bets?

I cannot obviously disclose the financial terms of our operation. But I think what is interesting to see is that for most of their lives, the brands (Ulysse Nardin and Girard-Perregaux) have been independent and run by the family that owns the brands. The Kering era was a very short period in the life of these brands. It was from 2015-22. So, seven years.

With the MBO (management buyout), what we did is that we returned to the roots. It's no longer family (owned), but still it's a management who owns the company and who runs the company. It's actually a return to roots that also enables us to come back to the roots of innovation. For Ulysse Nardin, you can see this with the Freak (collection).

Does that also require more streamlining? Like you mentioned, there is trust, but you also have to tighten the bolts periodically?

To be honest, there was a decade when the brands were probably a bit down, or asleep, I would say. And the turnaround of the brand did start in the Kering era. This is probably something that people may not be aware of always, but Kering was a very good shareholder, they understood that the brands needed to be woken up, and they agreed to the turnaround plan. With the MBO, we accelerated a bit the turnaround plan, but we didn't change much compared to what we actually presented to Kering before. And this is probably also one of the reasons why Kering saw the MBO as a really good option, because it knew that for the brand, the long-term view we had was particularly important.

That particular decade when it seemed to you like the brands were perhaps asleep, was this also the time when there was a big shift in the luxury market? You saw China coming up in a big way as a consumer of luxury products, and India as well? Tell us how that shift might have affected the brands, and how you're looking at the India market and the Chinese market now.

What you say is completely true, actually. The owners of the Girard-Perregaux and Ulysse Nardin brands (Girard-Perregaux's Gino Macaluso died in 2010 and Rolf Schnyder of Ulysse Nardin passed away in 2011), sadly, passed away at the wrong time when major shifts in the watchmaking business happened. The focus on qualitative distribution, the focus on new markets like China. And of course our brands missed a lot of turning points, and that's why actually they fell asleep for a decade or so I would say.

Now for India, we're trying not to make the same mistake. We think that India has a lot of growth potential, from an economic standpoint, but also in terms of cultural interest. It's a very old culture, ancient traditions. I learned this morning that you have craftsmanship that is very similar to enameling for jewellery; time is of importance for you. So everything, actually, is aligned so that India can be a growth market for watchmaking, especially for Girard-Perregaux. Because I think we have a lot of values in common. So that's why we decided to enter the market with a strong partner like Ethos, and also opening a monobrand boutique because we want to be at the top of what luxury can propose from scratch.

Ulysse Nardin boutique at Ethos City of Time in Gurugram.

Does that mean there's a plan to open more boutiques in India or are you sort of focusing on specific centers?

I have two answers for you: first is that in the luxury business, it's not a matter of geographies, it's a matter of cities. You need to be in the big cities. A consumer of horology in Delhi is probably closer to (has more in common with) a consumer of horology, maybe, in China, than an Indian consumer for entry level brands. So we need to think in terms of cities first.

Second, we need to go step-by-step because what is important is to succeed in everything we do. We know that it takes time. With the MBO, we secured a project over several years. Will it be 5, will it be 10, will it be 15? I don't know. But the long-term view is what matters most. We do not have any private equity; we do not have short term-oriented investors; we have family offices that are here to stay and understand the importance of taking the time.

And it's exactly the same thing with the India distribution. We need to succeed in Delhi first. I hope we will have a boutique in Mumbai too. And then if you succeed in Mumbai, if you succeed in Delhi, it will trickle down into the other cities, right? And even within the Ethos network, salespeople know that you can succeed with UN, it will also give them trust and confidence to sell Ulysse Nardin. So step-by-step, but yes, in the medium term, we would like to increase the track in India.

In Indian rupees, Ulysses Nardin watches start at around Rs 10 lakh and go up to about Rs 77-80 lakh, which is roughly the equivalent of the price of a car in this country, from a mid-level car to much fancier models, if not the most luxurious cars. So, two questions really, what is your pricing strategy for India, and second, is there a feedback loop from the Indian and Chinese markets that influences how you function and what watches you make?

The pricing strategy actually is very linked to the brand positioning. Luxury brands need to be consistent everywhere because luxury consumers travel and they travel a lot. So they would n't understand why you can have a dumped price, I don't know, in India or in China or have a higher price in the US in Europe or elsewhere, right? Our recommended price list, excluding VAT, is more or less at the same index everywhere. With FX (foreign exchange) fluctuation, we cannot say that every day, but more or less it is homogenous. Now we are going through retailers. We have a luxury goods business and due to anti-competition law, we cannot impose prices. But at least in what we offer in terms of recommended prices, it is more or less aligned.

In terms of the loop, actually I'm not sure we are influenced (by geographies we sell products in), we are too small to have some collection specifically for India, collection specifically for China.... But what is for sure is that our product teams are listening a lot to the feedback of the market. So yes, it will be encompassed in the new developments because if the Chinese market, India market, say, smaller sizes (are more in demand now), and especially if it echoes another request from Europe, for instance, of course, we will adapt the product strategy. But I wouldn't say that we will focus only on one or two markets to have this loop. It's more an overall feedback that we digest, filter and if it matches several geographies or customer style, of course we'll integrate that in the product strategy.

Ulysse Nardin was just at Geneva Watch Days, tell us some of the trends that you're seeing in the world.

To be honest, I was not at Geneva Watch Days. But I think smaller sizes, that's probably a key trend. And the fact that people want to stand out. We are already in that (space).

Freak X Gold enamel with 43 mm dial.

Ulysse Nardin's Freak X collection launched in 2001. You're coming up on an important milestone. Any plans to celebrate the 25 years?

Yes, the Freak X is really our icon ...in 2023 we won that GPS Geneva prize for iconic watch and of course freak. It's the most complicated time-only watch ever made. It paved the way for the superwatches we've seen after, like the Garmin. It's the first watch to use silicon within the movement. So definitely Freak is the centre of our collection, our icon and we will celebrate accordingly the anniversary next year. You will have some massive launches and even at Dubai watch Week, something big may come.

Tell us about your understanding of the India market. Is India a different market to luxury watches elsewhere or are there similarities as well?

You have increasing disposable income in India. With that will come, of course, more luxury buys from the population. And then you will go into a loop where the more you buy luxury, the more you educate yourself, the more you will be refining your taste and so on. I really think that Indian market can be an important watch market.

From what I see, eternity wins over instantaneity (for Indians). Time is important for you. The craftsmanship you have, tradition is something very important to you, and you are a country of contrast with tradition and innovation. And that's what Ulysse Nardin and Girard-Perregaux are, why I see a lot of similarities between our brands and the watch consumer in India.

Sowind manages both Ulysse Nardin and Girard-Perregaux - each with its own distinctive aesthetic and movements. How do you keep them separate, from a parent company point of view?

We have some kind of a backbone in which you find all the support functions, so finance, IT, HR and so on and also the manufacture. The manufacture is common to both brands, but there is no common movement between brands, which is important.

And everything which is customer facing, meaning touchings, the DNA of the brand, is completely separated. You have Chinese walls - so you have separate marketing teams, separate design teams, separate product teams. That enables us to preserve the DNA of both brands. Still it does not prevent both brands from exchanging ideas. Or if a brand is, I don't know, an expert in this technical part, it may help the other brand also to improve. But the Girard-Perregaux guy (employee) will discover a new Ulysse Nardin launch at the same times as you will. We really are keen on simply keeping things really separated.

And as CFO, which brand gives you more sleepless nights?

Woh! Well, none of them we know, really. Each brand has its own, I would say, issues to solve, right? But nothing is impossible if you have the support. Nothing is impossible if you if you tackle it correctly. And you need, sometimes, to innovate. But that's why we are here. We are here to innovate for the consumer, but to be able to innovate for the consumer, you need to innovate first for yourself and make sure that you also adapt to the conditions. So that's what we are doing every day at the manufacturer, and that's also how we are securing the DNA by freeing innovation.

Inside the Ulysse Nardin boutique in Gurugram.

You mentioned similar values between the brands and India, including craftsmanship around enamelling. Are you then also looking at Indian talent for some of your design, manufacture and for some of your other workshops?

It's a very interesting idea. To be honest, we are focusing really on streamlining our current offer now. But we have already done an Indian limited edition in the past and we could completely think the next year to do a limited edition again, employing an Indian artist or an Indian craftsmanship that is specific to the country.

You've used Indian artists in the past?

No. This is something we could do, definitely.

Tell us women's watches. You don't make a lot of those, do you?

No, we don't. But I think the question is twofold. If you look at the number of SKUs specific for women, we do not have a lot of them. We try to bring the same value to the women. When you see the Diver Atoll 39, the dial is a slice of stone (a blue-green gem called chrysocolla) and it really gives you the impression of the waters of a lagoon. So, it's a very well-created piece. When we do something for women, we put the same energy and the same, I would say, patience that we do for men.

Of course, the number of watches (for women) are more limited. But I would say also that the DNA of the brand is pioneering innovation and match craftsmanship and our watches are a form of self-expression, right? And with the Freak X, for instance, this quite small - a 42 millimetre watch - more women are coming to the ground through this type of watch that are almost, you know, it's not, it's not male, it's not female. Actually, it can fit both wrist and all wrist and find some the Freak X Crystalium we mentioned before is a perfect example. So I think that with smaller size cases, we could completely also reach the women market.

You mentioned you are all about experimentation and innovation. Is there any thinking around creating watches specifically for the tropical climate where it can be dusty, humid?

All our watches go through severe testing for all conditions of humidity, of temperature. We are quite confident that our watches can stand tropical conditions as you mentioned. On top of that, most of our watches for this now are actually sold on a rubber strap, which is perfect for these kinds of conditions. Because leather would probably go wrong after a few months. But rubber straps are perfectly adapted to that and most of our collections on offer (in NCR) is available on the rubber straps, but we won't go further than that.

What percentage of your sales comes from the Asia market, and specifically India?

I have not looked into that, but I would say is that our main (revenue) contributors are the United States - I'm not sure of the order - Dubai, China - it's a bit difficult now but China was a big contributor to Southeast Asia. If you take Asia, it's probably actually the biggest of its region. If you break it down by country, to be honest, I prefer not to answer because I do not have the figures here. But what is for sure is that India should become a growing part of our revenue because of what we talked about before: because of the economic trends, the young generation.