MC Interview: Petroleum lobby fueling ethanol blending controversy, says Nitin Gadkari | Full transcript

Nitin Gadkari

In an exclusive conversation with Moneycontrol’s Shweta Punj, Union Minister Nitin Gadkari spoke about India’s rapid infrastructure expansion, the government’s reform push, the impact of global trade dynamics and the political challenges ahead. He also set the record straight on concerns around 20 percent ethanol blending in petrol, dismissing them as misinformation peddled by the “petroleum lobby.”

Here is the full transcript of the interview:

Shweta:
Namaskar and a very warm welcome to Political Economy with Shweta Punj. Our guest today is a very powerful leader who has been rewriting the India growth story. He's been building roads and highways at breakneck speed. And he has been one of the longest serving ministers in Prime Minister Modi's cabinet. Mr. Nitin Gadkari, thank you so much for joining us on Moneycontrol. Mr. Gadkari, we're going to the airport and we're in Delhi. It's monsoon time. During monsoon, every citizen has a complaint that roads break at breakneck speed. We saw in Mumbai that the roads were filled with water. New flyovers were filled with water. Roads were breaking. Why is this happening? You've said that you'll build roads like America in two years. Why is this happening? And how will we be able to build roads that aren't so bumpy?

Gadkari:
First of all, there are different types of roads in our country and their agencies are different. I'm just the Minister of National Highway. There are 63 lakh km roads in our country. I'm responsible for 1.5 lakh km of that. There are village roads, district roads, state roads, DDA roads, corporation roads, state government roads. I'm responsible for the majority of national highways. One thing is important. The roads in our country have a lot of black cotton soil. There is tar and water enmity For example, I'm from Nagpur. I've built a concrete road. Mumbai-Pune highway, it's been 30 years. There's no water in it. We have a new technology of white topping in many places. We remove the tar road and top it with 6 or 8 inch bitumen white topping concrete. We do the white topping of the concrete. Naturally, we have to improve the technology.

And secondly, sometimes it rains heavily. There are clouds burst. So, there are problems. We have started a new program. We're identifying black spots. We're spending 40,000 crores on it where the accidents happen. We're identifying water logging spots. Along with waterlogging, we've decided to identify landslide spots. We've decided that even if the water goes the road doesn't get damaged. Based on that we are trying to work on this.

Shweta:
You've also said that there will be roads like in America. How will they be made? And when will they be made?

Gadkari:
We've already made the express highway, for example, Delhi-Mumbai highway. After Delhi, we'll go from Haryana, Gurgaon to the Dwarka express highway. From the Dwarka express highway, we'll go to UR2. It's a state of art project. There are four lanes on one pillar. We've made artificial tunnels. For one tunnel, we'll make another one. So there are changes in design and quality. Now, Delhi to Dehradun will take 2 hours. Delhi to Amritsar will take 4 hours. Katra will take 6 hours. Srinagar will take 8 hours. Delhi to Jaipur will take 2-2.5 hours.

Shweta:
When will this be possible?

Gadkari:
Delhi-Jaipur is done. Delhi-Dehradun will be ready in 2-3 months. And it will take 2 hours from Delhi to Dehradun. Chennai-Bangalore will take 2 hours.

Shweta:
This also will be inaugurated in two months. Chennai-Bangalore?

Gadkari:
In 3-4 months. Bangalore-Mysore will take one hour, previously it used to take 3-3.5 hours. Delhi-Meerut will take 45 minutes, earlier it used to take 3-3.5 hours. One thing is for sure that there has been a change. Because of the change, in our state, there are 4 lanes, 6 lanes, 8 lanes, sometimes 26 lanes. Delhi-Meerut has 26 lanes. The part of Dwarka Express Highway has 28 lanes at one place. I think in the whole country, Arunachal, Meghalaya, Tripura, Bihar, Uttar Pradesh, everything is changing. Because of this, the infrastructure of our country is becoming world standard. And I firmly believe that it will be equal to America in 1-2 years. I am talking about the National Highway Road Network. I am not talking about all the roads.

Shweta:
We talked about America. We are talking about trade tariffs. America has imposed 50% tariffs on us. What is the impact of this on the automobile sector? Also, we have done an FTA with India-UK where we have reduced tariffs for UK automakers. What is the impact of this domestically?

Gadkari:
Right now, the foreign ministry and the commerce ministry are looking at this. As far as the automobile industry is concerned, our export to the US and other countries is increasing. It is continuously growing. The report is still the same. I think our automobile industry will move forward. When I became a minister, we were in 7th position. Now, we were in 3rd position. Now, we have put Japan behind and we are in 3rd position. Japan is in 4th position. America's size is 78 lakh crores. China's size is 49 lakh crores. India's size is 22 lakh crores. I am confident that the way we are working on alternative fuels, biofuels, we have a scrapping policy. Electric, ethanol, methanol, biodiesel, LNG, CNG, hydrogen. The way we are working on all these, I am confident that in 5 years, we will try to achieve the first place in the world.

Shweta:
So, you don't see much impact of the tariffs. If there are 50% tariffs in India, what about the supply chain and components?

Gadkari:
I won't comment on America. But I will tell you that our automobile industry is continuously growing. And the growth will continue.

Shweta:
Yes. We have given permission to Tesla to set up in India, to sell cars in India. Tesla's sales are dropping all over the world. The Indian market is very important for them. If we open our market to electric vehicle makers, do you think they are ready for this competition?

Gadkari:
See, whoever wants to come into our economy, they can come. But the electric brands like Tata, Mahindra, Suzuki, all these brands have come up with very good models. Models are based on design, quality and cost, and the consumer market is based on that. Now we have applied Bharat NCAP also, the star rating. Because of that, the quality and design are improving. And I think, because of a market-driven economy, whoever quality, cost, and design is good, they will get good market. Right now, world's all brands are there in India's automobile industry. There is growth everywhere in in tractors, buses, construction equipment, etc.. There is growth in everything, 20-24% growth. I think in the future, the future of the industry will be very good.

Shweta:
Let's talk about GST rates. You were the first to say that GST should be removed from insurance. And today, there is a discussion going on that not the GST on insurance, on most of the product, it will be reduced on a lot of things. What do you think will be the impact on the economy? There is also a discussion about reforms. What other reforms can we bring?

Gadkari:
What the Prime Minister said in his speech on Independence Day, is definitely very welcome. And it will have a positive impact on the country's economy. And the people will be happy because that will be very positive and will have a positive reaction due to decrease in tariff.

Shweta:
So, for example in your constituency, in Nagpur-- you were the first to say that GST should be reduced. Now that we are talking about this, Mr. Gadkari, what other reforms can be done to benefit people?

Gadkari:
Our government's policy is to reform and transform and perform, so we are working according to this three strategy. I think we have implemented this in all places, in law, in economic policies by keeping the liberal economy, bringing the transparency, so we have created such an environment which is very friendly under the Modi Ji's leadership. Our target is to become the world's guru, to be the economy of 5 trillion dollars, the world's third largest economy. I think we are slowly moving towards that. And soon we will be able to achieve our goal. And people also have a positive and good reaction.

Shweta:
The Prime Minister called for a meeting a few days ago and you were also there in that meeting. In that, the Prime Minister asked for suggestions on what we can bring to the economy so that we can move the economy forward. And as India-US talks are going on, if there is a tariff impact, it will affect our MSMEs as well. So Mr. Gadkari, what will be the priority of the government in the short term after that meeting? And if this tariff is 50% levy on us, is there any recognition that our MSMEs need support?

Gadkari:
I think our MSMEs are doing a very good job. And there is growth in all areas. And we are moving forward. As far as the tariff and other impacts are concerned, the Commerce Ministry, the Finance Ministry, and the Prime Minister are handling all these issues. At the right time, they will decide. It is up to them to decide.

Shweta:
As far as the reform push is concerned, are there any areas that have been identified?

Gadkari:
There has been a huge change in laws, nearly about 1500 laws, where there was jail punishment, so that's been hugely changed. And the Prime Minister has been insisting on a time-bound decision-making process, corruption-free system, full transparency, and growth-based reform in the administration. And whatever laws were needed, we brought. Secondly, we have also established a digital infrastructure. AI is being used everywhere. We are moving towards perfection. We are definitely trying to establish a qualitative administration. And the public is responsible for everything. We are here for them. On that basis, a lot of changes are being made. I feel that in the future, this is a continuous process. There is no end to it. The suggestions we get about the reforms, we keep on implementing. More suggestions come, more we get ahead. Based on that reforms keep on coming.

Shweta:
Gadkari Ji, in your ministry on what goals are you working on? You mentioned earlier that you have set a speed limit for the construction of highways. Now moving forward, what is the goal?

Gadkari:
We have reached 40 km. Our goal is to reach 100 km.

Shweta:
100 km a day?

Gadkari:
Yes. This is not in my declaration. The problem is that when I talk, suppose a child is in a school, then their parents say that you should come in the merit. So to come in the merit list is a goal. I am trying to reach 100 km. We are converting 24,000 km of four-lane roads. We are building 50 green express highways. The best thing that I can tell you is that IIMA Bangalore and IIT Kanpur and IIT Roorkee did a study. In that study, our goods transport is 81% on the road. 16% is left. 1% is for the railway. And what they said is that our logistic cost is 6% less due to good roads, and I believe that by the end of next December, we will reach 9%. We were at 16%. China was at 8%. America and European countries are at 12%. By December this year, we will reach 9% .The 6% reduction will lead to our export. Industrial sector, pharmaceutical sector, agriculture sector, all will benefit from this. This will definitely increase our growth.

Shweta:
As you said, we are setting new goals for ourselves. Infrastructure is a very big growth-generating industry. I wanted to ask you that if we talk about public transport, the roads and highways that you are building, transport also comes under you. It is said that if people use public transport, then it is believed that it is indeed a developed country.

Gadkari:
It is absolutely true. We have started working in public transport. On 360 route, we are building cable car and funicular railway. We are also trying to bring hyperloop technology and sky bus technology to improve the transport of big cities. Right now, we have issued a tender for a flash-charging bus. We are bringing in new technology, it's going to be very popular. It has a capacity just like metro. Metro's capital cost is Rs. 550 crores per kilometer. We have Rs. 2 crores per kilometre. This bus has 135 seaters. Tata has won the tender. They are putting a factory in Dharwad. The work has started.

Flash charging comes down and the bus is charged for 40 kilometers. It has 135 seaters. There will be an air hostess inside. There will be tea, water and breakfast. There will be a TV.

Shweta:
Is it for intercity travel?

Gadkari:
Yes, this will be intercity also. The fare of this bus will be 30% less than a diesel bus. There will be an executive chair. Delhi, Jaipur, Delhi, Bangalore, Chennai we are trying to run this bus on our highways. If this transport gets established, public transport will become so comfortable that people won't use their vehicles. The fare of a diesel bus is 30% less. The first project will be awarded for Nagpur. It will be made in a year. After that success story, we will start at many places in the country.

Shweta:
From which place in Nagpur?

Gadkari:
We will start the pilot project of 50 kilometers on the Nagpur ring road.

Shweta:
What will be the ticket price approximately?

Gadkari:
It is our intention that it will be less than the fare of a diesel bus per kilometer

Shweta:
Can you give us a number?

Gadkari:
I can show you the film. Ashok will give it to you. You just watch the film. It is very beautiful. The bus interior is good. It is a Tata bus.

Shweta:
Tata has taken a tender. For how many buses?

Gadkari:
30-35 buses will run in 50 kms. In every 10 minutes, the bus will move from both sides. Slowly, as this project gets established, we will start it in the whole country.

Shweta:
You have talked a lot about ethanol blending. It is being said that ethanol blending reduces mileage. Indian vehicles' engines are not equipped to handle ethanol. I wanted to get your thoughts on that.

Gadkari:
It's totally wrong. Ethanol is a green fuel. There is an institution called (0:17:30 inaudible) where they had also trialed old model vehicles, even for one lakh kilometer. After that in Brazil, we have the branch here that is there in Brazil. There they put 27% ethanol. There is no complaint. I have an Innova car that runs on ethanol 100%, it makes 60% electricity. I have the car with me for one year. There is not a single complaint. Indeed, it is a very good green fuel, and air pollution is a very big problem for us here. It is a fossil fuel worth 22 lakh crores. And because of that it causes pollution in our country. The pollution will also reduce due to ethanol. The import of 22 lakh crores will be reduced. Farmers will benefit from ethanol. We have given permission to farmers to make ethanol from corn. The price of corn had Rs. 1200 quintal. MSP was Rs. 1800 quintal. Now due to ethanol, the price of corn is Rs. 2800 rupees per quintal. Now, in UP, Bihar, and all other countries, there is a three times increase in corn plantations. This means that farmers can buy three crops of corn. This will boost rural agriculture and the economy. Farmers will benefit from this. The country's import is reducing.

Our policy is important substitute, cost effective, pollution-free and indigenous thing. Should the country's imports be reduced, which is of 22 lakh crores? Should the country's fossil fuels cause pollution in cities like Delhi? Should the people's health not improve? Should the farmers who are facing poverty and starvation double their income? This is the role of biofuel. Should the farmers not become financially independent? There are some people in the petroleum lobby who are protesting against this. We have verified everything on the technical ground. We have taken the decision on that basis.

Shweta:
You have also said that the Indian automobile sector will be number one in the world. Is there any support that we are planning? Support packages for the EV sector? Any innovation ecosystem that the government is working on, Indian automobile sector?

Gadkari:
When the lithium-ion battery came to India, its price was $150 per kilowatt per hour. Now its price is $55. So there is no need to help. In fact, there is a 30-40% increase. In our two-wheeler industry, Bajaj, TVS, Hero, Honda, 50% of their production is exported. Electric vehicles are cheaper now. The cost of lithium-ion batteries are also cheaper. So they don't need any incentives.

Shweta:
Sir, let's talk about politics. Elections are coming up in Bihar. There is a lot of commotion regarding the Electoral Rolls Revision. It is being said that BJP working with the Election Commission, and the special intensive revision is not required. It is being given very little time. Many voters will not be able to exercise their fundamental right to vote. Do you think this criticism is valid? Why is it being done in such a hurry in Bihar?

Gadkari:
First of all, in elections, winning and losing happens. If we lose, it is not right to blame election commission. We should accept defeat. We have also lost in the elections. We are an independent, impartial and fair election system. We are the biggest democracy in the world. I think it is irresponsible to blame for this.

Shweta:
What about the voters whose names have been removed?

Gadkari:
This is totally wrong what is being said. This matter is in front of Supreme Court. I think nothing will come out of this. We will never like such things. Independent, impartial and fair elections is our agenda. Opposition parties are trying to mislead people.

Shweta:
In Bihar, what issues do you think the elections will be fought on? Will the Electoral Revisions become an issue? Will BJP be able to bring good results in the elections?

Gadkari:
We will win with a good majority. This will not become an election issue. People have been saying this for a long time. People have never believed in such things.

Shweta:
You are talking about the opposition. You are an independent politician and the opposition is also good for you. How is this possible?

Gadkari:
See, I make the NH. If I make Mumbai from Delhi and if there is an opposition, there will be no benefit. Everyone should do their own work. I have been doing this. This is I got from Atal Bihari Bajpayee Ji. I am a volunteer of the Sangh and a worker of the BJP. But when I become a minister, I am the minister of the country. Naturally, everyone should do the right thing. We should not do the wrong work of even our own people. We should not do this. I work on this. I don't hide my party identity. I don't hide my ideology. I am open about this. People love me. I am lucky to have people's love and trust. I don't calculate anything. This is my natural behavior.

Shweta:
Amit Shah has presented a bill in the parliament. According to this bill, if any politician who is in public office goes to jail for any reason, he will have to sacrifice their ministry. Is there a need for such a bill now?

Gadkari:
You are not telling me that the Prime Minister has also been included in this bill. This means that on the basis of information, there is an effort to make a positive change in our democracy. Opposition parties should support this. No one should use this against anyone.

Shweta:
Sir, the government will have to give this trust. We will not misuse this.

Gadkari:
We have given this. We will not do this wrongly. We respect the opposition in our democracy. This is why we did this. This bill is not against anyone. Opposition parties should support this.

Shweta:
Sir, you are from Maharashtra, Nagpur, and there is a lot of investor community in Maharashtra. Any message for the investor community?

Gadkari:
India is the fastest growing economy. Our exports are increasing. As far as knowledge is concerned, innovation, entrepreneurship, science, technology, research, skilled and successful practices we name it as knowledge. Conversion of knowledge into wealth is the future. We are fortunate to have the youngest, most talented engineering men in our country. We are advancing in technology and research day by day. We should invest in industry and business as well as the international community. This is a great opportunity. India is the fastest growing economy. We will definitely use it. This is my belief. People should invest in India. This is my request.