Full transcript: Union minister Pralhad Joshi on GST 2.0 and more at Reforms Reloaded summit

Union Minister Pralhad Joshi, in an exclusive conversation with Network18 at its Reforms Reloaded summit in New Delhi, hailed GST 2.0 as the “biggest reform since Independence,” outlining its consumer benefits, impact on business, and links to broader economic and energy reforms. Here's the full transcript of his interaction:

Anand Narasimhan:
Thank you, Pralhad Joshi ji. Thank you very much. And Namaste and Jai Hind to everybody. Now, he doesn't often come to events and when he comes, we would not let him go. We would ask him some questions because his ministry, like somebody was just telling me is like the work of lighting a lamp in a home — providing both nourishment and light. So, that's why it's very critical.

Pralhad ji, my first question, this is a white swan day as many people say, 22nd of September 2025 with GST 2.0. Why do you believe this is landmark? So, I would like to understand your perspective. From your perspective, why is it that this day is very important, especially from the consumer's point of view and from a nation point of view?

Pralhad Joshi:
Thank you, Anand. But first of all, I am thankful that the first day and the GST 2.0, you are telling it according to me, and the Prime Minister, it is next-gen GST. Also, as far as a political science student, I can say, this is the biggest ever reform after 75, 77 years of independence, according to me. With full confidence at my command, I am telling you, this is the biggest reform. And why it is important? Why it is important means, as far as the Consumer Affairs Minister, if I can tell you, whatever the consumers, day-to-day, they are using, that is either 0% or 5%. So, if I can quote, I come from South India, if I can quote an example, whenever I visit Bengaluru, I go to one hotel there, where dosa is done very well. For dosa, we had to pay 20% tax. Today, it is zero. It is a very ordinary hotel. When they used to give us receipts, if we have dosa for Rs. 100, we had to pay Rs. 20 tax for it. Today, it is zero. If we drink good South Indian coffee, it was 20% GST. It was 20% tax, all put together, before to GST and before to this reform. Today, it is 0%. And many of them, they are under 5%. So, toothpaste and shampoo, soap, all those, they are in 5% range. Means, common man is going to be benefited.

And of course, either state government or central government, they are losing some revenue. Some states, especially opposition states, they are crying now, but it is their job to cry. We cannot do anything for that. But what is the question? When people have so much savings, when purchasing power, their capacity increases, when there is more business in the market, when there is more business, naturally, there is more revenue. But for that, we have to be patient. And first, we have to provide facilities to the people. We have to work with our hearts. That is what Prime Minister Modi has done it.

Anand Narasimhan:
You have said next-gen reforms. But Prime Minister has also said that the citizen is like God. Now, let's take your second example. That Rs. 20 that has been reduced, that benefit, is it being passed on or not? Or will it take some time? Because on the first day, there was feedback from many places that it is not happening.

Pralhad Joshi:
Firstly, Prime Minister has a special quality. He has got a special quality. That is, he believes in the citizens of the country. He believes in the people of the country. He believes in the businessmen of this country. And we are trying to promote it. We are going to canvass it. But at the same time, there are many companies, you must have seen, like, car companies, there is a small mill federation in Karnataka. It is a government cooperative society. It is an elected body. Immediately, they have given the advertisement how much they are reducing. Like many companies, they have already given. So even Hindustan Lever or Unilever, they have also given the advertisement. That is one aspect of it.

Second is, GST also has an anti-profiteering wing. As a Consumer Affairs Ministry, we have established a helpline because generally, consumer complaints, though there are other authorities, like for example, Civil Aviation also has a DGCA. Still, some complaints come to us. Because consumers, as such, many a times, they feel that we should go to the Consumer Affairs Ministry. So, we have also made up a system that in pre-litigation, we have already tried to solve some issues. So, for that purpose, they are coming to us and we have established a helpline. We are also monitoring. And as a Prime Ministry, Line Ministry, Finance Ministry is also doing necessary follow-up and we see to it that it is passed on to the consumers.

Anand Narasimhan:
Like you helped during Prayagraj, during Kumbh, in controlling air prices, you helped. There was differential pricing, on platforms, on e-commerce platforms, you also helped on that. So, here in GST, despite not being the Line Ministry, you will help?

Pralhad Joshi:
Yes, the Line Ministry is there, but as I said, consumers, it is the basic job of our Ministry to take the interest and to take care of the consumers. Definitely, we are going to do that. That's why we have established a helpline.

Anand Narasimhan:
But, Minister, why do you call it the biggest reform? You said, I put my word here, this is the biggest ever reform that Bharat has witnessed. Why do you say that?

Pralhad Joshi:
Now, why I have said this, probably everybody so far, because now it has been announced 15 days back, everybody is aware. See, what used to happen, so many taxes, so many compliances. Now, compliances have become so simple, refund has become so simple, and slab, only two slabs. So, seeing all this, people, even the business community feels that compliances are easy, if there is a refund, it comes immediately, there is a provision for the refund, and the tax slab has also reduced. Earlier, when I can recollect, I have industry, even today, I am one of the directors in that, I am a shareholder. It is a small company, but I am there.

When I started the company, you cannot believe, because I come from a very humble background, that an excise inspector had troubled us so much, so in the beginning, we thought, why are we starting this factory? But today, the system has become so simple, and in one GST, in two slabs, your entire problem will be solved, and your input credit, everything will be refunded immediately, and along with this, your daily consumable items, that have become either 0% or 5%, what is the need for such relief? People are very happy about it. That's why, why are all these people crying? Why are they so sad? Because sometimes, Modi ji hits a sixer in the middle, it takes time for them to understand, that is their problem, but people are very happy about it, and we don't want to make politics out of it, but I can tell you, this is the biggest relief for the public.

Anand Narasimhan:
Opposition, especially the Congress is saying, we said this 8 years ago, you are doing it today. What we said then, you are doing it today.

Pralhad Joshi:
Today, I saw a statement, maybe you have also seen it, that this is show-off, this is nonsense, this is eye wash. So, on one side, they say this is eye wash, on the other side, they say, we gave this idea. So at least, be completely clear, what do you want to say? You come out with what you want to say about this overall reform. Earlier you said, we said this, so this is what people wanted. I was there as an opposition MP also in Parliament. So when these people came for GST, why did they oppose? Their UPA at that time, today's INDIA, why did the same party oppose? What was the reason? Because at that time, there was an issue of central sale tax, there was a compensation to be given, so whatever was to be refunded, it was to be given to the state, these people did not give. So this is the INDIA, this is what the people of UPA said, we do not believe in you, we do not want GST. But the GST compensation that we had promised, to compensate that, we provided it in the law, and Modi ji followed it completely. That is why in the GST council, to be accepted unanimously, some people do it from the heart, but some people do it out of fear of the people. This is the difference what I can see today.

Anand Narasimhan:
Mamta didi has also said that we had said on health insurance, that is why it happened, this was not done by the government, it was our idea.

Pralhad Joshi:
No, no, till now, the whole thing is to welcome from the heart. If it is your idea, then at least welcome from the heart, they are not doing that either. Why are you afraid of welcoming it?

Anand Narasimhan:
But did you know that this is going to happen, or was there an indication that this is going to happen? In 15 days, suddenly this announcement comes, and do you wonder, why does Modi ji take such risks, does he have this appetite? Politically, it is a very risky job.

Pralhad Joshi:
See, this is going to happen. This was what was there in the government, what discussion was going on, I do not say this in public now, but I say one thing, this decision cannot be made in a week, in 15 days, in a month, this decision cannot be made. We should agree that there should be a lot of consultation. So in this, we have to discuss with a lot of people, with the stakeholders, many times, and we have to prepare for this. That was going on for many days. And the Prime Minister had in mind that we have started GST, we have benefited a lot from GST, which we started in 2017. But reducing its slab, reducing its compliances, all these things, its actual benefit should reach to people. And apart from that, these consumable items, which can be used day to day, these consumable items, there should be either 0% or 5%. This was in Modi ji's mind, and that has been implemented now.

Anand Narasimhan:
What according to you, in the last 11–12 years, are the top five reforms by PM Modi?

Pralhad Joshi:
One is, according to me, GST itself is the biggest reform. Second one is insolvency and bankruptcy, because of this, what has happened now, in banks and assets, all the problems that used to be there, are almost under control. Otherwise, even banking reforms, in continuation with the banking reform, all banks, at that time, the non-performing assets were so much, now all banks are in profit, and NPA has come down like anything. That is the second reform.

And third is ease of doing business, and the infrastructure. This is a big change in infrastructure, be it road, be it port, be it airport. I know our airport, through the state government, my constituency's airport, this was an airstrip. So after Modi ji came, the airport became a full-fledged airport, and now 8–10 flights are being operated. And I say, 70–150 airports have been made like that. How much has been changed in the road, how much has been changed in the port. And in today's day and age, Modi ji repeatedly tells us to reduce the number of compliances, and the logistic time, to reduce that time. This is another biggest reform.

Jan Dhan is another biggest reform. When the Prime Minister Modi Ji had said open the account, the same opposition had mocked us on this. First opened an account, then linked to Aadhaar, then linked to mobile. How much has been changed. Almost 4 lakh crore savings account, which we directly do DBT. Because of these 4 lakh crore, money that previously ended up in the middle of poverty or in the wrong hands now reaches the intended beneficiaries. All these changes represent the biggest reform, and these reforms are benefiting the people of the country.

Anand Narasimhan:
Let's talk about renewables, solar and wind. There is a huge thrust; that's also because of the climate goals. We as a nation have to achieve a few climate goals. What kind of reforms are being pushed in the renewable energy sector, especially solar and wind?

Pralhad Joshi:
As far as solar and wind and overall renewable energy are concerned, if I can put it in an overall perspective of what have happened in 10-11 years, if I can quote about that, what was the total solar energy in the country by, when it was 2014, as far as I remember, and it is correct also, 2.4 gigawatts. Today it is nearly about 125 gigawatts; another week, 15 days, it is going to reach 130 gigawatts. So from 2.4 to 130. And it was 75 gigawatts from the total from the non-fossil fuel source, today it is 252.

Fifty percent of our target of 2030 is being achieved, and installed capacity, which was announced by PM Panchamrit in COP26, by 2030 we are going to install 50% of our energy from the non-fossil sources, which is achieved 5 years in advance; that is, 2025 we have done it. And a delegation from the EU came, you must have seen, all the commissioners came, and PM told me to give a presentation to them. When I gave a presentation in our office, I had invited them to my office, they were stunned. Can it be done in 10 years?

I can tell you in detail what has happened, but from 2.4 to 130, it is the biggest achievement. Second thing is modules: was there a Swadeshi module in the country? Now it is a module. How much have we invested in that? 24,000 crores. Apart from Modi ji, no one can take this risk. We make it, with viability gap funding, we gave them in PLI, and we have 28 gigawatts manufacturing capacity. We have implemented ELMM; it will start in ‘28. Swadeshi Ingot and Swadeshi Vapor, we have already started; trajectory is on. I am quite confident we will come out with viability gap funding.

One more thing I want to tell you, wherever the viability gap funding, that is in the form of PLI we have brought, that has brought down the per-unit cost, and overall investment, cost of the unit has come down by 40%. This is the biggest achievement. By that, the cost of electricity per unit, when it comes down, overall production cost comes down. So that is the biggest thing what has been done. I am very happy about it.

And it is not only another thing; I am taking your little time. It is not just that only renewable energy, emission, or clean energy, but I have also handled coal also. By handling the coal, I know a little about thermal power. Thermal power, though we have a good amount of coal, overall problem is 6.5 rupees minimum per unit. But whereas, with storage capacity, with wind, with pump storage, all put together in a hybrid model, we are giving at 4.5 per unit. So then what will be the difference? Two rupees. Two rupees difference is a big thing as far as manufacturing is concerned, because one of the major raw materials in any manufacturing activities is power. So this is adding to the overall reduction in the cost, and we are becoming viable in the global market. This is the biggest thing we have done under the leadership of Prime Minister Shri Modi.

Anand Narasimhan:
But you say renewable energy, we have met the targets 50%, 5 years in advance, but last year, two-thirds of our generation was via fossil fuel power generation. So please explain this paradox.

Pralhad Joshi:
To explain this paradox, all I can say is, we have to add renewables. We have added a lot. I am not comparing, but at the same time, thermal has been going on for years. Day by day, today the total installed capacity in the country is 495, out of that 252 is renewable energy. So we are adding minimum; last time our addition was 33 gigawatts, this time I think it is going to be 44 or 45 gigawatts, this year, current year, what I am speaking. Day by day, renewable energy is increasing, but earlier it was zero. In 10 years, it has come to this level, so it has come from zero to here. I believe, in another 10–15 years, Modi will be there, and we will surpass whatever is there in fossil fuel.

Anand Narasimhan:
Let's hope that. But for that, some projects are stuck; it is necessary to clear them. I am given to understand that approximately 40 gigawatts of such RE capacity is lying unused due to lack of PPAs. So what is the government going to do, because DISCOMs are not coming forward to sign power purchase agreements? So what are you going to do there?

Pralhad Joshi:
With the other problem, there is one major problem: the price is going down, so every state government thinks that tomorrow it will also go down. This is the problem we are facing. So I have told all the chief ministers, and my secretary regularly is interacting with the chief secretaries and the energy secretaries of the state. I have met many of the chief ministers that if you don't do PPA, then it goes down, and if you increase the power generation capacity, then naturally there will be more investment, your revenue will increase, job creation will increase in your state. So this we are convincing. Relatively, there has been some progress, and further there will be progress because the Honourable Prime Minister has also taken it very seriously. Another small problem is the regulators are in the state. In the central, they create some problems; that also we are trying to handle.

Anand Narasimhan:
The central–state coordination is something which is also an impediment. You touched upon it. Is that too much of an impediment? Are state governments putting too many roadblocks? Is the centre not working with the state?

Pralhad Joshi:
See, some people are late in understanding. First, if you can recollect, Prime Minister Modi has started this movement of renewable energy, specially solar, around 20–22 years back. Then the cost was around 17–18 rupees per unit, but Modi ji did not stop because he knew that after 20 years, or two decades or so, the future energy is renewable. Now, people are understanding. For example, if I can quote, PM Kusum is for agriculture. In agriculture, no one was coming forward. But we talked to everyone and convinced them how it is going to benefit not only farmers but even the state. I got many people from our officers to make a presentation that once you invest in this, the free power you give, once you invest, later, every month, every year that you pay to DISCOM that gets stopped. Your free electricity problem is a headache, whether it is for the household or whether it is for agriculture. That will once and for all stop. This was convinced; work also started.

In the meantime, I would like to congratulate Maharashtra's Chief Minister. Maharashtra's Chief Minister got a good model of PM Kusum. Then everyone thought he can do a lot of magic in this. Now every chief minister comes and meets me and asks me to increase the allotment of PM Kusum. So in March, PM Kusum, the scheme is being completed; it is going to end. But now I have requested the Honourable Prime Minister to extend the period of PM Kusum 2.0 scheme. Many chief ministers have also written a letter to PM about extension of PM Kusum. So that now, some people understand it quickly like PM Modi, and some people do not understand it quickly.

So now, they understand it at their level, but by and large, including the opposition states, they have understood. What is the importance of renewable energy? One is price, another is basically emission, all such things, and decentralised electricity generation. How many jobs are being created? 12 lakhs, 13 lakhs have already been created in PM Kusum, PM Surya Ghar. So people are getting employment in their village, people are getting employment in their small cities, tier 2 cities. So everybody is understanding the importance of renewable energy, and by that, this movement has picked up very well. PM, because of his leadership, has convinced many people.

Anand Narasimhan:
But Mantri ji, when it comes to solar and wind, one of the aspects is to generate it we need land, and land acquisition is a problem. There are a lot of renewable energy projects. How are you handling that, mitigating it?

Pralhad Joshi:
Land problems are not just for the renewable energy sector; everyone has land problems. So we have to find a way out. So what we are doing in PM Kusum and PM Surya Ghar is, due to decentralised generation, nearly about 65 gigawatts we are going to generate out of that only. That is one point. Second point, in PM Kusum, wherever there is land for farmers, in some areas, if they are not cultivating it, then we are requesting them to give it for renewable energy, meaning solar energy. For that, we are giving them rent.

I recently went to Rajasthan, and in Rajasthan, I met farmers, and they said, we are always indebted to PM Modi. I said, why? We have barren land; the land is in our name, but we don't do anything. And now we are getting 30,000 rupees on rent. So these are the things. People are also coming forward. Even common citizens who have one acre, two acres, half an acre of land, that is also coming forward. So I think this is a win–win situation that will be solved, apart from all these things.

Whenever I am going for a meeting with Honourable Chief Minister, I am highlighting to them that you have to work out with the farmers, with the public at large, and also wherever government land is available, that you may kindly make it at least on a lease basis, long lease basis, for the private entrepreneurs, so that your energy problem, your energy cost, and energy headache will be considerably reduced. This is, people are getting convinced now. That is why we are moving fast. This year, as I have already told you, this year we have already added 23–24 gigawatts, and this is our highest in a single year, and another 20–25 we are going to add this year.

Anand Narasimhan:
Fantastic. Now you wear two hats. We’ve talked about renewable energy. Now we talk about ration. There are two, three questions regarding that. One is this One nation, One Ration Card. How is the implementation progressing, especially with the migrant workforce and population? Is the implementation on track? Are you monitoring it?

Pralhad Joshi:
See, I can tell you one thing. One Nation, One Ration Card, One Nation, One Grid, One Nation, One Subscription. I say to One Nation, One Nation, what Mr. Modi has said, these people are scared of One Nation. So when we started One Nation, One Ration Card, even then it was criticized, but it has been 187 crore transactions in One Nation, One Ration Card.

So, if you understand and I come from Karnataka, as I said earlier, in such a large number of people in Bengaluru, there is labour from different states. They are all availing the free ration, under the Pradhan Mantri Garib Kalyan Anna Yojana. Every individual who comes there, they are availing this facility of ration card, which is technologically driven. 100% ration cards. The digitization which people used to make fun of, I am telling you today, 100% ration cards are digitized today, and 99% of the beneficiaries are Aadhar-linked and digitized. So things are changing, and that is the leadership of Prime Minister Modi.

Anand Narasimhan:
Final question, back to GST, the passage of rate cuts, is your ministry actively monitoring that this entire passage of rate cuts actually happens to the consumer? Because that's the big question, whether this will actually lead to a consumption boom or not. And what do you think will be the result—will we see it in 30-40 days?

Pralhad Joshi:
No, I have full confidence. First, the public now can understand, unlike before, when they depended on newspapers or TV channels. Today, the situation is different. Every day, WhatsApp, social media, Instagram are active. So many people are using social media, and with the number of Wi-Fi connections in the country today, people are understanding. Many manufacturers themselves are also volunteering by advertising it. These are all things happening. Otherwise, the Finance Ministry is monitoring, as a Consumer Affairs Ministry we are monitoring, and other line ministries will also monitor. I am quite confident on that.

Anand Narasimhan:
Thank you, thank you so much.

Pralhad Joshi:
Before telling that, one more thing I wanted to add—the impact of the reform on renewable energy. I am going to tell you one figure—you will be stunned. The investment overall, which was 18% earlier, has come down to 5% today. In this 5%, do you know what the savings are? One lakh crore to 1.5 lakh crore. How? I am telling you. We are yet to install till 2030, 248 gigawatts, because 252 gigawatts we have already installed. For that 248 gigawatts to be installed, the overall savings per megawatt will be nearly about 25 lakhs. So that will overall bring down 1 lakh crore to 1.5 lakh crore in the country. This is what Modi has given to renewable energy and overall energy.

Anand Narasimhan:
Those in RE (renewable energy), their electricity bills are going to reduce, right?

Pralhad Joshi:
Per unit cost will also be reduced, per unit cost again is going to be reduced. That is what Mr. Devendra Fadnavis was telling yesterday, that this year they are going to the regulator to reduce the cost of energy, not only for consumers but even for industries.

Anand Narasimhan:
So GST is also helping reduce electricity bills?

Pralhad Joshi:
Yes, there will be more electricity and more savings as well.