Full transcript: Amitabh Kant's exclusive interview at Green Bharat Summit

He discussed the global EV market's shift, India's lag, and the need for bold policy changes and industry disruption.

Amitabh Kant, India's G20 Sherpa, emphasised the urgency for India to accelerate its electric vehicle (EV) transition during a conversation with Chandra R Srikanth at Network 18's Green Bharat Summit. Here's the full transcript.

Amitabh Kant: So, Chandra, first and foremost, we must be clear that look at the global scenario. The United States has imposed 100% duty on import of vehicles from China. 100% duty is, you know, in the history of tariffs has never been seen before. Europe has imposed a 45% duty from China. Now, if you look at the movement of EVs, China is more than 50% EV. Europe is 23% EV. The US is about 10% and India is just 2%, just 2%. Our manufacturers are five years behind the curve. If they were up to date today, India would be the biggest exporter of EVs to the United States and to Europe with 100% and 45% duties.

So we need to accelerate the pace. The disruption will be so rapid and so fast towards electric in the next five to six years that India needs to go, to my mind, not 30% electric, but minimum 60% electric by 2030. And we need to go 100% electric by 2035. We need to do this because 42 of your 50 cities are the most polluting cities of India. And without the transportation sector being tightened up, and you need to bring disruption through policy changes, you need to tighten the cafe norms. You need to ensure that only auto should be, the two wheelers and three wheelers should all go 100% electric in these 42 cities.

Without this, India will be, it's like saying that we'll be selling typewriters in a digital age. That's not possible anymore. It's important for India to technologically leapfrog and leapfrog in automobile manufacturing, in battery manufacturing, and in fast chargers, interoperable fast chargers across the country. Without this, we lose out in the automobile revolution. Because in India, 7% of the GDP comes from the automobile sector. We employ close to about 34 million people in the automobile sector. We've been a champion. There's a technological shift taking place across the world. If India doesn't do this, you lose out the market across the world. You'll not be able to export. And therefore, massive disruption by the industry is required, and to global size and scale. And this is critical. And I'm making this point because the industry is sitting here. Industry is five years behind the curve.

Chandra R Srikanth: Wow, you sound pretty angry, Mr. Kant. But why do you think we are five years behind the curve? Because if I look at the numbers, compared to where we were a few years ago, I think till November of 2024, EV sales, at least in the two wheeler space, has crossed 1 million. So the scale and volume is still there.

Amitabh Kant: Don't go by numbers. Look at the percent. What is the percent? Less than 2%. What is your size and scale of India? What are you talking? Your analysis is all wrong. 2%. China is about 60% now. We launched the PLI on automobile PLI and battery PLI in 21. Not a single paisa of disbursement has taken place till now. The government has shown its intent.

Chandra R Srikanth: Why do you think the industry is falling behind? When you say five years, it's a very strong statement.

Amitabh Kant: Look around the world what is happening. The scale at which the transformation is taking place. If 100% duties are being imposed across the world, that India should have been benefited. If the world is moving away from China, then who is the next beneficiary of that change? It should automatically be India. India is a trusted partner. Indian exports of EV, two wheelers, fast chargers, cars, et cetera should have penetrated Europe and America by now.

Chandra R Srikanth: So is this a capital issue? Is it an R&D issue? Is it a technology issue? It's an intent issue.

Amitabh Kant: It's an entrepreneur issue of looking five years ahead of the curve, not behind the curve. We should have done this much earlier, much faster, much quicker. And I'm making this point. I'm making this point because the world is going EV. The world is going EV because the world is looking at 1.5 degrees centigrade. You can't live in a country where 42 of your cities are amongst the 50 most polluting cities of the world. You're creating a chaos and a havoc for the citizens of India. And that's happening because of the transportation sector as well. So the transportation sector of India, young entrepreneurs must take the lead.

Chandra R Srikanth: I'm sure the industry is listening, sir.

Amitabh Kant: And you can't make yourself dependent on China for batteries and for fast chargers. You have to manufacture in India. You have to, and I appreciate all the startups who've driven this. I appreciate many startups who took the lead in EV. I appreciate many of the startups who started making EV chargers in India and making them interoperable.

Chandra R Srikanth: Right, but more needs to be done.

Amitabh Kant: 10x more needs to be done.

Chandra R Srikanth: And interestingly, while startups led the charge in this space, we are also seeing some of the traditional automakers stepping up significantly. Will that move the needle for India?

Amitabh Kant: See, the problem is that people have become very status-quo-ish. Because I'm talking about the car manufacturers. I'm talking about the car manufacturers. At least on the scooter side, there are about, on the two-wheeler side, there are 1,432 startups. So that demonstrates the huge strength of the startup movement which caused the disruption. But if you'd left it to the legacy players, it would have been very difficult for India to move that. You know, startups which have forced the pace on the legacy players as well.

But look at the established car manufacturers. Indian car manufacturers like Tata and Mahindra have pushed the pedal now on new cars, new models. They will, take it from me, one year down the line, and both on EVs, Tata's and Mahindra's will face capacity constraints as new models come in. But they should not look at only India as their market, they should look at the world as their market. Because the EVs will be exported across the world. And India needs to export.

India needs to export because China will find it very difficult to export with 100% duty. The world is your market. This is the opportunity for Tata's and Mahindra's, and for Maruti, and for Hyundai from India, to become the biggest EV manufacturers of the world. Look at this. We talk about Tesla, Tesla holds only 12%. BYD is controlling 22% of the market share. But BYD will find it very difficult to export. Where will the markets be if you're putting 100% and 45%? The market is open for Mahindra's and Tata's.

The policy shift in these countries, Europe and America, has opened up the market for India. It's for Indian entrepreneurs to take advantage.

Chandra R Srikanth: It's up to us to capitalize on that.

Amitabh Kant: Yeah. Automobile sector is contributing 7% of your GDP. So if you do not make the technological shift, if you do not do pole vaulting and technological shifting, imagine the impact of India's GDP. Imagine that this sector contributes 35 million jobs. What will happen to jobs in India?

Chandra R Srikanth: Mr. Kant, in answer to my previous question, you said it's not a capital issue, R&D issue, technology issue, it's an entrepreneurial issue or an intent issue. But in terms of building an ecosystem, because it's not just about building a vehicle, it's about building an enabling ecosystem, how can we ramp that up significantly? What lessons, or models, or playbooks can we adopt from all these countries? Because even to educate users, to make them overcome charging anxiety, was a Herculean task. So they literally have to build the ecosystem along with building vehicles and ramping up exports. What else can be done?

Amitabh Kant: So look at the government policies. Actually, in the last four years, the government has put out 75,000 crores for the shift through Fame 1, Fame 2, PME drive, electric fast charging, automobile PLI, look at the PLI for batteries. All, there's not a sector which has been left out. The first policy shift we announced was for BLIs in batteries. We've, 30 gigawatts has so far been taken, our intention was 50 gigawatts. My belief is that we, you know, look at this, the world today is, look around the world for battery manufacturing. The world is doing 1,200 gigawatt of battery storage, giga plants, 1,200 gigawatts. We have zero, right now zero, I think Ola and Reliance are getting into battery manufacturing. Ola will do it by April, Reliance will do it subsequently. About 100 gigawatt has been announced. But announcement is no good. You should crack delivery, implementation, implementation, implementation is the key.

India should now have been producing about 200 gigawatt of battery in India. You can't make us a China dependent. And similarly, fast chargers, they should all be domestically manufactured. And there are four or five really good startups which have started doing manufacturing in India. So fast chargers, interoperable, million fast chargers across the country, that is the way to go. And 100% two wheelers, three wheelers penetration of EV in at least 42 of these cities which is getting polluted.

And the cafe norms must be tightened on two wheelers, three wheelers to make them 100% EV, go 100% EV in 42 of the polluting cities. There's no rationale at all. Why should the lives of citizens get impacted by polluting transportation?

Chandra R Srikanth: I'm sure the industry is listening and hopefully they will ramp up efforts. But Mr. Kant, I have a follow up question on the policy angle. The one thing that the EV industry is looking forward to is how the government will go about fame three. And we've heard Mr. Kumaraswamy talking about it, that it will be a broader scheme. What can the industry expect from fame three?

Amitabh Kant: No, so you have the PME drive. My view on this is very clear that the government should do 100%, force the two wheelers and three wheelers to go 100% electric. And the second thing the government must do is to do large scale procurement of buses, like we did about 6,000 buses for six cities. It's demonstrated that you can buy buses in India, use the size and scale of procurement like we did for LED bulbs. We procured 400 million LED bulbs, brought down the price of LED to 15% of its original price. We did 6,000 buses. It took me about 140 meetings to bring down, to get six cities to agree to the norms because every city had different norms.

Now, Prime Minister said 10,000 for the next one, for which the Ministry of Housing and Urban is doing 10,000. The next tender should be 30,000, the Prime Minister said. And the fourth tender should be 100,000 electric buses. Make India go 100% electric on buses. People must travel by electric buses all over. And that will make India the centre for electric bus manufacturing in India.

Chandra R Srikanth: Public transportation is the key.

Amitabh Kant: Public transportation is the key. And tighten the cafe norms on, allow carbon trading and tighten the cafe norms on four wheelers also. And allow carbon trading. Tesla has earned 10 billion. Can you imagine through carbon trading 10 billion? Why should Mahindras and Tatas not earn through carbon trading? If they go electric, every single manufacturer, whether it's Maruti or whether it's Hyundai, all of them must go electric.

Chandra R Srikanth: I hope Maruti and Hyundai are listening. But Mr. Kant, you also spoke about autonomy and independence when it comes to battery cells. So at present, I think India imports all its lithium ion cells, which has again kept battery costs high and also hindered the widespread adoption of EVs. So again, what else can be done here from a taxation point of view? Because I read that while EVs have taxes of 5%, battery cells and lithium ion batteries attract 18% GST. What can the government do there?

Amitabh Kant: Let me give you a little bit of background. The production linked incentive was designed for only two sectors initially. One was battery, one was mobile manufacturing. Look where mobile manufacturing has gone. Look how much we are exporting. Look the number of jobs it has created.

Chandra R Srikanth: It's become a key market for Apple as well.

Amitabh Kant: And Samsung. Where is the PLI for battery? We had announced 50 gigawatt of batteries to be manufactured in India in 21. Not a single gigawatt has come up here. Some exporter called Rajesh Exporter took a PLI. He's not done any manufacturing. Whom will you blame? You will blame the private sector of India or not? Now finally, Ola is going to launch its manufacturing.

Chandra R Srikanth: Ola has put up its gigafactory and Tata.

Amitabh Kant: What I'm saying is, this was transparent process. If others could do it, if electronic could do it, so could the Indian automobile sector should have done it by now. We've lost, four years we've lost the opportunity. We're getting into 25, we have lost the opportunity of four years. We should have not only done battery manufacturing here, we should have been an exporter by now. I mean, if one sector could do it, why should the automobile sector should not have done it? In four years’ time, we should have now ridden the wave of this 100% duty on China.

Chandra R Srikanth: But we've fallen short of that.

Amitabh Kant: Absolutely. But now the opportunity for the sector, all your entrepreneurs sitting here, make these 42 cities 100% electric, two wheelers, three wheelers.

Chandra R Srikanth: I hope that will be a pledge that all of you take. And by the next Green Bharat, Mr. Kant should be happier than he is today at the pace of adoption and acceleration in the EV space.

Amitabh Kant: No, no, let's be clear. It's not about my being happy or angry.

Chandra R Srikanth: No, but you've been a passionate advocate of this.

Amitabh Kant: I'm saying that for the-- see, first of all, this sector is impacting the lives of citizens.

Chandra R Srikanth: Absolutely.

Amitabh Kant: It's impacting the lives of every citizen. You're cutting down the lives of Indians by 10 years in these cities. That's number one. Number two, if you don't do this, you will not survive. This industry will not survive if you are not able to do the technological revolution.

Chandra R Srikanth: That's a huge wake up call. Yeah, yeah. Mr. Kant, I also wanted to get your views on the rapid pace of disruption we are seeing thanks to IoT and AI. How will that impact the sector going forward?

Amitabh Kant: So it's integral. Without artificial intelligence, without IoT, vehicles will not be able to sell. It's integral to automobile sector. IoT, automobiles, IoT and AI will be driven by the automobile sector. It'll become, it's absolutely integral to the automobile sector because you should be able to assess every single battery. You should be able to assess every single vehicle from wherever you are, and you should be able to monitor its performance from wherever you are. So AI and IoT is absolutely integral. This sector should be the driver of AI and IoT in the future.

Chandra R Srikanth: Right. So you spoke about what needs to be done from a manufacturer point of view, from a company point of view. In terms of the mindset shift from a consumer point of view, how do you think it has progressed for India? Do you think the affordability has gone up? The adoption is more widespread. People are not that resistant to owning an EV compared to say two, three years ago when they would worry about battery discharge or charge running out.

Amitabh Kant: So there's been a radical shift in the mindset. Everyone wants to buy an EV, two-wheeler, three-wheeler, and now an EV four-wheeler, hopefully. My view is that in another two years, three years, consumer will not like to buy a fossil fuel technology at all. I've been a long-term believer that fossil fuel technology is totally dead. It belongs to another era. And therefore, every single consumer should buy only an electric vehicle.

Chandra R Srikanth: Have you bought one?

Amitabh Kant: I have. I use a Tata Nexon as my official car, and I'm now waiting for the Mahindra new car to come in and the Tata new Harrier to come in. I'll buy both of them, one after another, yeah.

Chandra R Srikanth: Mr. Kant, leading by example, a round of applause for that.

Amitabh Kant: I'm a believer in being a key player in the technology sector. And I really believe that every single Indian who can afford it, even if you have to take a loan, you should help to catalyse this movement.

Chandra R Srikanth: Because as he said, it's a question of our own lives and the air we breathe.

Amitabh Kant: See, 7% of your GDP you lose out if you don't do this technological revolution. 35 million jobs are dependent on this sector. And only young, many of the young startups in India here, sitting here, will do this disruption. And you need to disrupt and do it rapidly because you'll never get this opportunity. Secondly, don't look at India as your market. Look at the world as your market. I mean, there's a huge shift taking place. I mean, Biden said that there's a 100% duty imposed. Trump will follow it up with 10% more, or probably 60% more. So that means China will not be able to export to USA. Europe has put a 45% duty. Who has the opportunity? You're five years behind the curve.

Chandra R Srikanth: Right. I also wanna know how many of you in the room own an EV, two-wheeler, four-wheeler? Okay, that's about a quarter.

Amitabh Kant: No, the second point, which is very, very important is that all corporate fleets in India, and I think by a mandate the government should force all corporate fleets and all government vehicles should go EV. There's no reason for state governments and government of India not to have EVs. Two-wheelers, three-wheelers, cars, all must go electric vehicle. I've been a long-term proponent of this. Corporate fleets as well as government vehicles must go electric.

Chandra R Srikanth: And I think the push to procure buses will go a long way in that.

Amitabh Kant: Absolutely, no, cars also. Government buys so many cars, why should it buy fossil? Fossil fuel cars, they should be all electric vehicles. Similarly for state governments. All state governments should also get into buying electric vehicles.

Chandra R Srikanth: Right. Mr. Kant, as we wrap up, I also wanna get your perspective on the role that startups can play because today, through the day, we are going to have startups in the EV space, people who make vehicles as well as people who are part of the battery ecosystem, people who work on the technology side. What kind of ecosystem play can we expect to really accelerate the momentum so that we make up for the lost time that you mentioned?

Amitabh Kant: So I think first and foremost is that the number of very remarkable startups are working. I mean, Ola, of course, is doing battery, but there are many of them doing fast chargers. They're indigenizing fast chargers. India needs about a million fast chargers. All should be interoperable. All should be interoperable. I mean, if a company like Tesla has opened up its IP for being interoperable, every single fast charger, don't monopolize technology. Why India became a digital powerhouse is because we created UPI, which is interoperable.

Chandra R Srikanth:  Digital public infrastructure.

Amitabh Kant: Yeah, yeah. So digital public infrastructure is interoperable in India. So all your startups must make themselves interoperable and allow different technologies to be interoperable so that fast charging spreads rapidly across India. That, to my mind, is key. A million fast chargers across the country.

Chandra R Srikanth: Right. If you have to give the auto industry, manufacturers, ecosystem players, three things to do in 2025 to make up for lost time, what would you tell them? What are the three most important things they should be doing?

Amitabh Kant: So first and foremost, I think India needs to put up a million fast chargers across the country to remove.

Chandra R Srikanth: Which are interoperable.

Amitabh Kant: Yeah, interoperable. Everything should be available on an app. You should be able to figure out, every single consumer should be able to figure out which is the closest fast charger to you on an app, which should bring knowledge fully. Secondly is India must crack 300 gigawatt of battery manufacturing fully in India, quickly. I think in the next two and a half years, it's possible. If Reliance has taken close to 20 gigawatt of PLI on this, they should crack battery manufacturing. India should do about 300. 100 gigawatt has already been announced. But announcement has no meaning. We should do about 300 gigawatt in the next four years of battery manufacturing. That's critical. And India should procure close to about 50,000 electric buses to make India move on electric buses in India. And the fourth point, 42 cities, 100% two wheelers and 100% three wheelers. All electric. No city-

Chandra R Srikanth: That's a very audacious.

Amitabh Kant: 42 cities of India, 100% two wheelers and 100% three wheelers across India to improve the lives of citizens.

Chandra R Srikanth: Right. As we wrap up, Mr. Kant, you already told me that you own a four wheeler of Tata's and you're looking forward to the one by Mahindra. But as someone who's living in Delhi, what other lifestyle changes have you made to cope with the air quality index?

Amitabh Kant: So one of the key points is what the Prime Minister talked about, lifestyle for sustainability. He's talked about the life movement. Each one of us, each one of us, it's very important that we make behavioural change. You know, it's not countries which will make a difference to achieve 1.5 degrees. It's the individual behavioural change of switching off batteries at the red light, of switching off taps when you are doing your, you know, when you open the tap, or behavioural changes are very critical in lifestyles of Indians across India. And similarly, you know, across the world, because we are not responsible for polluting the world. 82% of the carbon space is being occupied by the developed world. But we must be the first country in the world to industrialize and urbanize through a process of decarbonization. We must become the leader to show the world. We are at a stage when 500 million people are going to get into the process of urbanization. We are going to rapidly urbanize, we are going to rapidly industrialize. We must show the world that we are capable of doing it through a process of decarbonization. We've done 200 gigawatt of renewable, no other country in the world has done it.

We are going for green hydrogen by 2030. We import worth 180 billion worth of fossil fuel. We are saying that by 2030, we'll be the cheapest producer of green hydrogen, the cheapest exporter of green hydrogen in its liquid form, ammonia. We are saying that we'll be the biggest manufacturer of electrolyser, we'll bring down the price of green hydrogen from $4.5 to $1 by 2030. That is the challenge for India. India's climatically blessed, you have the climatic condition which no other country in the world has and use that to become the global champion. Make this energy shift in a manner which the world has never seen before. That should be our hunger, that should be our ambition and that should be our passion.