‘HR leaders have a task more important than that of the CEO’: TV Rao

(from left) Arvind Agrawal, the book jacket, TV Rao.

For most of us, human resources is a department that you interact with when you’re onboarding, offboarding, and during Diwali when you are encouraged to wear traditional outfit and participate in seemingly inane activities.

The reputation of HR as the organisers of rangoli-making competitions has been one that’s caught on over the last several years. During the pandemic, memes of people drawing rangolis outside their home being passed off as HR leaders "working from home" did the rounds on WhatsApp groups to everyone’s amusement.

But HR can be an instrument of the good and HR leaders can make a real change in companies. A new book, Leaders in the Making: The Crucibles of Change-makers in HR (Penguin Business, 480 pages, Rs 559), by Arvind Agrawal and TV Rao, features interviews of 30 such HR leaders.

Both Agrawal and Rao are senior HR leaders themselves. Agrawal has experience in leading large organisations such as RPG Group, Escorts Construction Equipment, Escorts JCB and Xerox. Rao has been associated with the Indian Institute of Management, Ahmedabad (IIM-A), for the last 40 years in various capacities — first as a professor, then as visiting or adjunct professor and, until recently, as a member of the IIM-A society and the board of governors. Together they attempt to make a case for how HR leaders can make a real difference. Edited excerpts from an interview:

How did you go about selecting the HR leaders who you have featured in the book?

Arvind Agrawal: TV Rao is the founding father of the National HRD Network and knows everyone in that network. He has also just published his previous book, Effective People (2015, Random House India), which analyses professionals across diverse fields — doctors, actors, civil servants, social workers, educationists, nation builders, and entrepreneurs — and articulates what makes them that way. We adapted the criteria he had articulated for selecting the people for that book.

TV Rao: The most important question we asked ourselves while selecting the HR leaders for our book Leaders in the Making: The Crucibles of Change-makers in HR, was thus: are these people constantly searching to discover their talent and using it to make a difference in the lives of others?

They could be doing this through the position they attain, influence, teaching, writing, or media presence. There were other criteria too that we have articulated in the book and following that format we shortlisted the people who you now see featured in the book.

As authors and senior leaders yourselves, what were the learnings you gleaned from your interactions with the leaders you have featured in your book?

Agrawal: The book features seemingly diverse people but you will see that after a point, patterns will start to emerge. Almost all of the people featured in the book have first-hand experience in handling employee relations, essentially what we call Industrial Relations (or IR). And our big learning was that the most effective leaders are those who have rolled up their sleeves and worked on ground.

This is also a learning that we hope young professionals take from the book and opt for a life beyond their laptops in AC offices. To be an effective HR leader you need to be able to look beyond policy creation and analysis.

Rao: The other important learning was that the most effective HR leaders were those who had moved verticals — from business to HR and vice versa. This helped them to increase their maturity as professionals. That would be the other learning that we would hope young professionals take from the book — be flexible and have cross-functional expertise.

What are the major challenges that HR leaders face today and how can they overcome them?

Agrawal: Businesses today have become more competitive than ever before. There is a lot of volatility and uncertainty and therefore, HR leaders often find themselves between a rock and a hard place. Similarly, the workforce is getting younger. This also means that the aspirations of the workforce are changing. HR folks have to deal with these changes, too, while also asking themselves how to integrate business requirement, competitiveness, and growth.

The COVID-19 pandemic has changed the way we work. What were the biggest learnings that HR leaders culled, or should have culled, from these last few years?

Agrawal: Until the lockdown, no one thought people could work remotely for extended periods of time. Offices and workplaces were sacrosanct. The pandemic forced all of us — HR leaders or otherwise — to change the way we thought. Earlier we knew people were working in our line of vision, now they are not. This requires leaders to trust their employees. This is a big shift.

The world is experimenting with a four-day work week. In India, several organisations continue to work six days. What changes can HR leaders bring about to usher in a work culture of this nature?Agarwal: In India, barring a small minority, most people work six days a week. We believe that as a nation we are far from the luxury of having time off. We need to put in lot of hard work on a sustained basis to be able to catch up (with the developed world). The nation needs it. Yet, we can agree that if the work we do is meaningful you may not care about the hours you put in. Therefore, we feel that the focus of the HR leaders should be on architecting work in such a manner that it becomes more meaningful for their employees.

HR can be an instrument of real change. Yet, among our — fairly large — social and professional circles, the perception is that the department does little beyond organising the annual Diwali party or sending out birthday emails. What can HR leaders do to change this reputation?

Agrawal: Bad news travels fast. In our experience, there are several leaders who are doing a great job in human resource functions in the country. Those stories need to be told. We hope this book triggers other authors who could interview such professionals and bring those stories in the public domain.

Rao: We do also accept that as an HR leader you have an ocean of opportunity before you to make an impact. HR leaders have to realise the importance of their jobs. They have a task that’s more important than that of the CEO — taking care of lives and livelihood.

Silent quitting is one of the most important work culture trends of our times. What tips can you share with HR leaders on how to deal with silent quitters?

Agrawal: Connect with people by walking around and understand what is in minds of people. Quite often, people are under-utilised and feel like just a cog in a wheel. Getting them to align with larger purpose of the organisation and connecting them to their own values and aspiration can help them
get into the mainstream of the business.

Gen Z employees have started entering India’s growing workforce at all levels. What is it that HR leaders should know about interacting and engaging with this generation of employees?

Rao: Gen Z are a very competent, well-qualified workforce, with aspirations. HR will need to organise the work in a manner that work becomes challenging, meaningful and a good learning experience.

HR leaders also need to give them space to experiment with their ideas. If you have a large number of Gen Z employees, be in touch with them through periodic interactions, town halls, newsletters and dialogues. Understand and appreciate their needs and way of thinking. They are the greatest capital you have. Give them autonomy and freedom. Help them to nurture themselves. Do conduct reverse mentoring where you can. Build competencies in their supervisors and managers to be supportive.

What are the big challenges you foresee HR leaders facing in the near future and what advice would you like to give them?

Agrawal: The uncertainty and volatility of the world are the major challenges going forward. HR leaders must display learning agility and be open to experiment newer ways for managing and leading.