Amit Shah says decision on electoral bond may bring black money in election funding. Here’s the Q&A

Amit Shah in conversation with Network18 MD & Group Editor-in-Chief Rahul Joshi at the News18 Rising Bharat Summit.

Union Home Minister Amit Shah, speaking at CNN-News18's 'Rising Bharat' 2024 leadership conclave on March 20, emphasized the transformative impact of the 10-year rule of the Modi government, asserting that it will be remembered in golden letters. He highlighted achievements such as India's ascent to become the fifth-largest economy under Modi's leadership. Shah touched upon various subjects including electoral bonds, the implementation of the Citizenship Amendment Act (CAA), the issue of corruption, enforcement directorate raids on corrupt political leaders, and the politics of Congress leader Rahul Gandhi, among others.

Here's an edited excerpt of the translated interview:

Amit Ji, this time some different numbers and figures are coming. You have taken a very bold target of 370, past 400 for NDA. So, this time, while looking at the wave elections, what is the reason you have the confidence that BJP will get 370 seats?

See, these are 10 years from 2014 to 2024. After 75 years of Independence, whenever the country’s history will be written, 10 years Modi Ji's rule is going to be inscribed in golden letters. In these 10 years, India’s public is experiencing the country’s completely new identity in front of the whole world. Every citizen of the country says with respect that he is an Indian, says with pride that yes, I am an Indian, and wherever in the world when anyone goes with any Indian passport, it is highly respected. These 60 crore poor people were completely cut off from the process of development in ten years, who even after 70 years of independence did not get a bank account, did not have toilet in their house, did not have gas in their house, did not get electricity in their house, tap water etc. There was no water available, one had to struggle a lot to get food, there were no facilities for health, within ten years, within just ten years, everyone would have a bank account, tap water in every house, toilet in every house, gas in every house, and all health facilities up to Rs 5 lakh provided to 60 crore people, and every poor person is getting 5 kg grains per person per month, free of cost today.

In a way, Narendra Modi ji has done this work of connecting 60 crore people with the Indian economy. In just 10 years, for which the country had been waiting for a long time, India would bring its economy to the forefront of the world. Atal ji had left the position at 11th position, economist Manmohan Singh Ji-maintained 11th position in 10 years and Modi Ji took it from 11th position to 5th position in 10 years.

And today through your programme, I have come to tell the people of the country that Modi is a guarantee, bless me for the third term, we will remain the third economic power. These 10 years, India will be the hub of manufacturing -- digital revolution in 10 years, from vegetable vendors to big corporates. Within 10 years, Indian startups are making waves across the world. Within a span of 10 years, an all-embracing, all-touchable and all-inclusive education policy has started, which takes great pride in its languages, imparts the most modern things all over the world and gives it the strength to stand on the world stage.
Within 10 years, India has become safe. A message has been given to the neighbours who bomb us now and then -- to eliminate terrorism by carrying out surgical strikes and air strikes, by entering homes - the bomb is in India, within 10 years issues like removal of Section 370, removing 35A, construction of Ram temple, construction of Baba Vishwanath corridor, ending triple talaq, bringing CAA, bringing many UCCs, many issues which no one had the courage to touch, Modi ji has boldly repealed them and made them work smoothly. The work has been carried out formally and peacefully.

Ten years will also be written in golden letters for the internal security of India. We were affected by 3 hotspots, Kashmir, North East and rural insurgency. During the time of Modi ji, in the last 10 years, violence has reduced by almost 75 percent in Kashmir, the area of rural insurgency and North East, and development has started there. And this is the biggest achievement in 10 years - earlier governments used to work for the development of the country, Narendra Modi ji has made the resolve of a great India, the dreams of 130 crore people and under the leadership of Modi ji, 130 crore people when the country will celebrate independence, on 15th August 2047, then is committed to create a great India and is sitting at the forefront under their leadership. Whatever you say, what is the target, the target is beyond 400, on the lotus symbol we will win more than 370 seats and this target will be achieved because the hopes, aspirations and dreams of the people of India will be fulfilled for the first time by a Prime Minister leading from the front. By doing his best, by standing with the poor and supporting them, by becoming a brother to their poor sister, today he is fulfilling their dreams. I have full confidence that under the leadership of Modi ji, BJP will cross 370, NDA will cross 400 and once again Modi government will be formed.

Thank you. You gave 3,4 answers to my one question. Now let me ask you questions one by one. The first issue which has become heated before this election is the issue of electoral bonds. So, first of all I want to know from you what is your reaction regarding electoral bonds? Do you think this will bring back black money? The confidential names of the people, the reasons due to which the people bought the electoral bonds, have now been revealed as they are today. So, is this fair? What do you think about it next?

See, whatever decision the Supreme Court of India gives, all the citizens of the country are bound by it, we are in a constitutional system. I respect the decision of the Supreme Court but I want to give my personal opinion that black money from bonds was on the verge of being eliminated, but this decision will again increase the pressure of black money in the electoral system. That is why the entire INDI alliance under the leadership of Rahul ji was against him and he wanted that the cut money which used to come like before, should once again dominate politics. What used to happen earlier? The donation used to come in cash. And what would have happened if the donation had come in cash? For example, a person used to deposit Rs 1,500 as donation, he deposited Rs 100 in the party, take Rs 1,400 to his home and deposited it in a Swiss bank or somewhere else - in a country where taxes are not disclosed, donations are not disclosed, used to take. With the arrival of the bond, this entire money was deposited in the party's account through cheque. This entire group, under the leadership of Rahul ji, is accustomed to old things. All they want is that whether the party receives donations or not, whether there is expenditure for elections or not, their generation should be able to live a very good life. And Modi had attacked this thing by introducing bonds. I want to tell you -- tell you about my party.

In 2014, 81 percent of the donations that came to my party were in cash, in which there was no trace of money. Used to deposit Rs 20,000 each. In 2018 it went from 81 percent to 17 percent. At the end of 2018 it remained at 17 percent and by the end of 2023, it came down to 3 percent. Our party had put it forward through a transparent way. As far as privacy is concerned, the only thing that matters is that we are a very big country – we have adopted the federal structure. Many political governments have parties. If someone gives money to one political party, then the other political party takes revenge on him through a vindictive approach within his state. Therefore, a system was kept in which who donated to whom would remain confidential. But it was not a secret as to which company donated how much and which party received how much.

Now whatever arrangement will be made, who gave it and how much, it will become confidential because everything has to be given in cash, and how much has been received by which party, that will also become confidential because it has to be taken in cash. And leave aside taking it in cash, arrangements for taking it home have also been made through it. And there is an allegation against us Rahul ji, we have received a lot of donations. This is false.

We have received Rs 6,200 crore. In front of this, INDI Alliance led by Rahul Baba has got Rs 6,200 crore, whereas we have 303 seats. How many seats do they have in the Lok Sabha? We have 17 governments. There is a party going on in our state. And this question of donations along with work is also wrong, because in the 2019 Lok Sabha, we got Rs 6,000 crore, including the bonds opened for the 2019 Lok Sabha, in this, we got Rs 8,071 crore donation. So now it is clear that when the code of conduct comes, there is a donation in front of someone. And after the Assembly Election Code of Conduct was imposed, we got Rs 2,640 crore.

Even at that time there is a code of conduct, no work is done. So more than 90 percent of the bond has been obtained after installing the conductor. So this argument is being made by big theologians, who are going to take advantage of the whole system -- because they are also politicians mostly -- they are going to take advantage of the donation cash, donation system. His argument was that this affects government policies. They do not know that after the code of conduct is made, no policy can come. So, most of the donations have come at the time of our code of conduct, 90 percent donations.

Rahul ji calls it Hafta Vasooli. He has got 1400 crores, his party –

Okay, then why did they charge Rs 1,600 crore per week, they should give an account of it. He has also received Rs 1,600 crore. We have got Rs 6000 crores, while all the other INDI alliances and Ghamandiya Alliance have also got Rs 6,000 crore, not a single penny less has been received. Rahul ji first calculated from where the donation was collected and from where the week was collected. We say that there is not a penny a week in this, it is a pure donation brought in a transparent manner, but he himself is admitting that his system is a week of extortion, so he should give an account of Rs 6,000 crore, said Trinamool Congress. From where did he bring it? Where did NCP bring it from?

Amit ji, some parties have declared their list of donors. Will you yourself, the BJP party also do this?

Brother, what are you declaring? Everything is going to be announced tomorrow. I am going to tell you; it will be announced tomorrow. Will not be able to show his face. INDI Alliance will not be able to show its face.

When you find out where –

When we find out where the donation has come from. Without understanding this, Rahul Gandhi, who gives speeches by reading the chits given by some people, does not know that he has hit his own foot with an axe.

Another thing that is being said about electoral bonds is that a lot of money, about fourteen companies, about Rs 4,000 crore, they have bought those electoral bonds when they have experienced some kind of a raid by an intelligence agency, like ED or CBI.

I told you that it could have been done for Rs 6,000 crores, which Ghamandiya Gathbandhan has got. As far as we are concerned, it happened within 40 days of the elections. Could such a case happen?

So, you are saying that those who were raided, it is not necessary that they have given money to BJP.

It will come out soon, I am telling you.

So, you’re saying that when tomorrow comes, everything will be crystal clear.

Everything will be crystal clear.

Okay, let's wait for it and then ask you questions. One question related to this, so I will ask it and move forward from it. The opposition says the raids of ED, income tax, CBI – why it's always occur on leaders of opposition? Are leaders of Bhartiya Janta Party all clean?

This is a white lie. I am telling in front of people of India after Mr Modi became Prime Minister, strict action has been taken on black money. ED is taking action on black money. And out of all the properties ED has confiscated, out of it only 5 percent is related to people connected with politics. 95 percent is of black money hoarders. This is also black money. But they want a path in which political leaders are not acted upon. I will tell you clearly that 95 percent of action has been taken on such people who are not related to politics. And this is false claim. From the house of minister of Mamataji’s ministry house Rs 51 crore is found. From the house of Parliamentarian of Congress, Rs 355 crore is found, 10 machines of SBI gets tired counting, gets hot, and they say action should not be taken. See, don't ask question on action as from the house of your Parliamentarian Rs 350 crore from where it came, that is biggest question. Mamata’s minister’s house – from where did Rs 55 crores came, this is the bigger question. What do you think, people don't see anything? To carry the bundle of notes, we had to bring Matador. One Matador was not enough, second had to be bought at 4 am at night. Where was this money going? Rahul, can you tell people of India these Rs 355 crore that was found in Congress’ Parliamentarian’s house was whose? They should answer it. And then ED should not act on it? This will not happen. Those who do corruption, strict action will be taken on him and they will be behind bars. And the question about BJP’s leaders, this country has court. When we were in opposition, we had filed many PILs against you, against your government. 12 lakh crores corruption was there. 42 PIL was filed. Out of 42 PIL, 35 had been ordered, and your own government filed against you FIR. If you have courage, go in court. And I am saying this 12 lakh crores corruption of INDIA Alliance, this Congress party, is putting dust in the eyes of people. The truth is since past 23 years Mr Narendra Modi was Chief Minister and Prime Minister, and on him even a 25 paise charges nobody can file in whole of India till date. This is the truth.

Amit ji, can you guarantee the people of India that if there is a leader on whom actions are being taken on, if he joins BJP…

See, there is no need to give guarantee. Rahul, you are a journalist, go to court that this politician is corruption, please take action on him. Court gives order on everybody. You go yourself, leave out INDIA Alliance.

I am just limited to asking question by my role. Next question, Amit ji, as the election days are coming nearby, political discourse is falling down. We have seen before also, before also elections has taken place. In the start people talk big things, opposition also talks about big issues. But as soon as the dates come near, the discourse gets falling down. Now people are saying we will shoot Modi, cut him in pieces. This type of discourse and that too from big leaders, how do you see this?

See, whichever party’s workers who live in common life, they should not speak in this sort of language. But I am not completely in agreement with you because huge amount of talks happen. Good talks happens, legalize opposition also happen. Talks regarding progression, talks of agendas happen. Progress of India also happens. But your people’s mind get stuck at one controversial 1-2 minutes only because it's connected to your TRP. From my interview, what good happens of India, you will not find it out. You will pick CAA, you will pick 370, you will pick ED. This is your work; I have no problem with it. But I need to tell the people listen to the whole conversation, every good conversation also occurs.

Opposition also pick good opposing issue and oppose us. It's not that in the country the political discourse of badmouthing has happened. It is true what you say, they love Mr Modi a lot. So, whenever election comes, Mr Modi gets badmouthed. But it's a record of Mr Modi since 2001, the greater he gets badmouthed, lotus blooms that much, Mr Modi gets greater majority. And even this time too same thing will happen. No one dies because of what someone says. Millions of mothers, who have got gas, got homes, got security, got food, got medicine in this country, have blessed Modi Ji. He is not affected by the curses of one or two people. No one can harm Modi Ji when the blessings of millions of people in the country are with him.

Let's move on to slightly bigger issues. Opposition leader Rahul Gandhi Ji has raised the issue of caste census. What is your opinion on the caste census? And what do you want to say on “As the population increases, so does the entitlement.”

Look, more or less, the share remains equal to the population. You take a look at the map of country’s parliament, that's what has happened. But Rahul Gandhi at least has no right to speak on this matter, because the Kakasaheb Kalelkar Commission, which first discussed reservation for Backward Classes, was kept in cold storage by the Congress for at least 30 years and was never opened or implemented. After that, the Mandal Commission came, and even then, Congress kept it in cold storage until they had the opportunity to use it.

And when the Mandal Commission was implemented, Rahul Gandhi's father, perhaps he doesn't know what his father said, but in the Parliament of the country, for one hour and 36 minutes, against reservation for BCs and OBCs, Rajiv Gandhi and the Congress party had opposed it vehemently. And Rajiv Gandhi drank water six times in between that. However, it was Narendra Modi Ji who actually did the work of granting substantive rights to the OBCs for the first time. And they count the Secretaries of OBCs, they count the Joint Secretaries too.

In the top 70, 80, there are maybe 2 or 3.

They do not know the one who comes at the top in the Indian government is usually around 55 to 60 years old. Rahul Ji, when were they recruited?

The recruitment took place during the time of your grandmother and great grandfather. Then they have reached at this position. He doesn’t know. And he gets to see the top secretaries that they had recruited. There are 27 OBC ministers in Modi Ji’s cabinet and India’s Prime Minister is also OBC. He doesn’t see that. His actual problem is that he simply doesn't study. Those who give him written in English, he just reads it straight in front of the world. Therefore, he gets trapped.

He was stating that there was a power again whom he was fighting and Modi Ji attacked it, saying that it is disrespecting women power. How do you see this?

See, he neither has knowledge about our traditions nor does he respect our traditions. The concept of power within our country has been, for thousands of years, that mother power is considered the greatest power. There can be no greater blessing than a mother's blessing. There is no love greater than the love of a sister. He doesn't seem to understand what he’s saying. With Modi ji, the maternal power of this country stands like a rock, and it doesn't matter what Rahul ji says. And in the past few days, all the conversations with women in the field that I had across the country have made it clear that at this time we must show him the maternal power in the election. I have found this everywhere, and I also want to call upon the maternal power of the country that Narendar Modi Ji has valued the participation of women in policy-making and law-making since independence. He has given equal respect to the leadership of the country's mothers and sisters. And no one ever fulfilled that demand, but Narendra Modi ji has recognised the power by providing 33 percent reservation to mothers and sisters in Parliament and state legislatures. And after this parliament, when the 20th parliament comes, you will see 33 percent mothers and sisters sitting inside. The whole world will see the strength of India's motherly power and how can we respect. Rahul Gandhi cannot understand all these things.

Amit Ji, one issue that is quite close to you is the CAA issue. Today, the court has also refused to grant a stay for CAA. So how do you see that? You passed it long before but why have you now notified after so many days, after so much gap. Was the election in your mind?

No, Rahul Ji, that wasn’t the case. After the CAA was passed, a big misconception spread across the country. Meanwhile COVID has come. We are in a democratic country. When misinformation spreads about something true, it is the responsibility of the party in power to ensure that the truth reaches the people. One misconception was spread. The opposition party spread misinformation to build its vote bank that the CAA would lead to the disenfranchisement of minorities in the country, especially Muslim brothers and sisters. Whereas it is opposite. The CAA is a law that provides for the granting of citizenship, rather than taking it away. Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains, Christians, and Hindus who have faced persecution in three countries and have come to India have been residing here for years without citizenship. They cannot purchase property in their name. They cannot apply for government’s job. How they will survive. And the Congress party had no answer for the millions of people who are distressed because of that. They were busy doing their vote bank politics. And misinformation was spread that CAA would strip Muslims of their citizenship.

I've said it many times, I want to make it clear once again. The Muslims of this country do not need to be afraid. The CAA is not a law to take citizenship, it is a reason to give citizenship. And as far as the CAA is concerned, at the time of Congress's independence, Mahatma Gandhi, Jawaharlal Nehru, Maulana Azad, Sardar Patel, Rajendra Babu, everyone had a promise, that the people who would come from Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan, India would give citizenship to all the refugees.

The promise was not fulfilled by the Congress party. We are fulfilling that promise. It is, in a way, an implementation of the Nehru-Liaquat pact. But Rahul Ji has nothing to do with all these historical documents. He is a leader who reads the cheat and speaks. There are not so many things in the cheat.

Kejriwal Ji, Mamata Ji, Rahul Ji, all say that when there are so many problems of job and food in the country, then when so many infiltrators will come, then how can we give them jobs?

These are not infiltrators. There is a difference between infiltrators and refugees. And I say this to Kejriwal Ji, Rahul Ji, Mamata Ji, everyone, if you’re really worried about the employment of youth of this country, why don’t you echo your voice against Bangladeshi illegal entrants and Rohingyas. Why they become silent. They become silent because they do not want to hurt their vote bank. Migrants come here after experiencing suffering. Right now, let me tell you. The Nizam got changed in Afghanistan; everyone was feeling insecure. Thousands of Sikh brothers came here with the sacred Guru Granth Sahib. What should be done for them? Are they infiltrators? Every Sikh brother and sister has the right in this country, just like you and me. Every Hindu brother and sister has the same rights as you and me. Calling them infiltrators is not right, and as for job opportunities, they have been living here already. They are staying here today as well. Where is the matter of extra load. And Kejriwal says what he will eat. If you’re having problem, Kejriwal Ji, then apply for 5 kg grain, we will also give it to you. We don’t have any problem. Modi Ji is giving 5 kg grains to everybody. These people are living here. There is no need of any new requirement. We have to make them citizens of India officially and provide respect. We have to recognize as our own. We have to make them part of this land that is their right. In this way, we should not talk about division of this country.

The US State Department and the US Ambassador have also commented on the CAA. Would you like to say something?

I believe they may not have had complete information on the matter. The Indian government's Ministry of External Affairs has provided clarification. I don’t comment much on this. But I want to firmly state that granting citizenship is the right of my country, and this right is not subject to any interference.

Elections are approaching, and there's news coming in that the Chinese military recently stated that Arunachal Pradesh is part of their territory. How do you see this?

They have been saying this since the time of Jawaharlal Nehru. And a significant portion was taken by them at that time as well. I wasn't even born in 1962. But this is the Modi government, and under its leadership, not an inch of our land can be taken by anyone at the country's borders. This is a promise to the people of India.

Amit Ji, the question is related to the CAA. And you have also previously discussed the chronology that after the CAA, the NRC will come. The discussion about NRC is less common these days. Can it be understood from this that it will or will not be included in the manifesto?

Rahul Ji, this misconception is being spread. NRC is a concept that was introduced during the time of the Congress government. Mr. Chidambaram was the Home Minister when NRC was conceptualized. Government is a continuous process, and we have furthered its implementation. But the CAA law does not contain any provision for NRC, nor does it have any genes of NRC within it. Please refrain from frightening the minority community of the country. Clearly state that the Citizenship Amendment Act will not revoke anyone's citizenship and this is a fact.

Whether NRC will be included in the BJP's manifesto and whether it will be addressed in the next term remains to be seen?

It hasn’t come into the manifesto committee. We will have to see when it comes before the parliamentary board. But I cannot make any announcements from this platform. However, I would like to make it clear that currently, the country has the Citizenship Amendment Act which does not contain any provisions of NRC.

During your previous five-year term, you accomplished significant tasks such as revoking Article 370, and now you are discussing the CAA. You have also initiated implementing a Uniform Civil Code through the Uttarakhand government. It's possible that these issues remain significant focuses for the BJP. As you said you cannot talk about manifesto as of now.

Rahul Ji, in common language, UCC stands for Uniform Civil Code. This issue has been pertinent not just today, but since 1950. For this reason, my party has been advocating for it, starting from the days of Jansangh. We cannot ignore this issue. We believe that in a secular country, there should be one law for everyone, without any discrimination. And we will present this stance openly in front of the public. The Uttarakhand government has brought in the UCC, and it will undergo scrutiny from various perspectives, including social, legal, and judicial. After that, a common consensus may be formed regarding it in the country.

However, the Uniform Civil Code is a promise of the Bharatiya Janata Party to the people of the country, ensuring that whether one is Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Christian, or Buddhist, everyone should live under one law.

There should be no interference in religious freedom; marriage customs should be according to one's own religion. However, there should be one law, as determined by our constitution makers. This is not just a BJP agenda. We accepted the Uniform Civil Code as one of our guiding principles. Which was accepted by leaders like Dr. Ambedkar, Sardar Patel, Jawaharlal Nehru, and Rajendra Babu. All of whom were leaders of the Congress party and everybody accepted. It is expected that at the appropriate time, the legislative bodies of the country, including the Parliament, will introduce the Uniform Civil Code. This was an ideal set before us, which the Uttarakhand government under the leadership of our Chief Minister Dhami Ji has progressed towards fulfilling.

The DMK has stated in their manifesto that if their government comes into power, they, along with their alliance partners, will revoke all these laws, they will revoke CAA?

Who said so? DMK is not going to come into power. There is no question of DMK, that’s why they’re saying so.

The opposition parties are saying that Muslims don’t have the right to live according to Sharia and Hadish?

See, this is also a kind of misconception. Muslims in the country have not been living according to Sharia and Hadish since 1937. When the British formulated the Muslim Personal Law, why had they excluded criminal elements from it. Then the hands of the thieves should be cut off, those who commit rape should be stoned to death on the road, no Muslim cannot open any savings account, cannot take interest and loan. If one wishes to live according to Sharia and Hadish, they should adhere to it completely. Why is Sharia and Hadish only invoked for polygamy? It shouldn't be like that. The Muslims of this country have been deprived of all the benefits of Sharia and Hadish since the time of the British. Almost all Islamic countries have also abandoned these aspects. This is the policy of appeasement by the Congress, and also the policy of the Waqf Board. They come out from the minority mindset.

And this is not something recent, it's not just today, it's not like that. It's been like this for years. Even today, civil suits are filed, so according to the country's constitution, Muslim brothers also file civil suits, it’s not as per Sharia and Hadish. No one goes to Kazi. So do Rahul Ji wants to implement, like, cut off the hands of thieves, stone the rapists to death, and hang or put those who rebel against the country on the gallows. Does he want to implement those?

Amit Ji, let's talk about South India, where Modi Ji has focused extensively. In the past two to three months, Modi Ji has visited there multiple times. You also hope that this time BJP's performance will be very good in South India. The first question is, a senior Congress leader actually said that South India should be a separate country. First, I would like to know what you want to say about this.

Well, the answer to this should be given by Rahul Ji. So far, the Congress has not condemned the statement made by that leader. The people of the country seem to believe that it is Congress' policy to divide the country into two parts, South India and North India. But Rahul Baba, don't worry, now the BJP is so powerful that the Congress won't be able to divide the country again. BJP will never allow the country to be divided. It cannot happen. What are you doing? You are talking about dividing the country into two to win elections. And what will happen to this party, such an old party, a party that fought for independence, and yet it does not condemn such statements. They don't even give notice and yet they give them tickets again. What do you want to say? The Congress party will have to answer for it in the elections.

I would like to ask you a direct question: how many seats do you expect to win this time out of the approximately 130 seats in the south? Last time, between Karnataka and Telangana, you got 29.

Look, don't count here and there, east, west, south, center, just count 370.

No, no, in 370, you have almost all the seats in many states in the north. So, what I'm saying is, where will the additional 70 seats come from?

When I used to say 300, Rahul Ji asked me the same question in 2019 also that where you will bring and I said I’ll tell you in the afternoon of the counting day. And we crossed 300 last time. This time also, I say, at 12 o'clock, with a smiling face, tell on the day of the counting that Modi's promise has been fulfilled, the target has been achieved, BJP has crossed 370.

I want to see where you are drawing your hope and expectations from. For instance, Karnataka--

There are plenty of opportunities. We can make gains in Bengal, Orissa, Telangana, Tamil Nadu, and Kerala. There are many areas where we can make gains, even in Punjab.

Let's start from the bottom. Will you open your account in Kerala this time?

I'm telling you, don't go piecemeal. Rahul Ji, count to 370. I will come on your show that day and show you that we had said that with the blessings of the people of the country, there's no doubt about BJP's performance. The affection of the people of this country is with Modi Ji, our leadership, and our party. That's where the votes will convert. That will get converted into seats, and we will cross 370.

Tell me about BJD whether you are together or not, you are fighting separately or fighting together. Pandian Ji had come here and said that everything is in the hands of the PM.

It's not decided yet; the national president will decide, but it's certain that we are going to increase our strength significantly in Odisha. The love of the people of Odisha for Modi Ji is accepted by our workers with full energy and humility. They feel it too.

Will the seats increase in the Lok Sabha compared to last time, but what will happen in the Vidhan Sabha?

Certainly, there will be a significant increase in both the Vidhan Sabha and Lok Sabha seats, and BJP will win many more seats than what the election pundits predict.

Are you in a position to form government In Odisha?

Anything is possible. Let's first decide whether we are going together or going alone. If we go together, Biju Babu is the leader, so naturally we will fight as allies. If we go alone, we will fight solely to form the government.

Pandian Ji has said an interesting thing: "Look, at the centre, BJP doesn't need BJD, and in the state, BJD doesn't need BJP." Do you agree with this statement?

Look, not every coalition is based on necessity. Many parties have supported us in Parliament on issues of national interest over the past five years whether it's Article 370, the GST, or the Bond, Congress didn't oppose it initially. But issue-based support has been extended to us by many parties, and I believe that it's the beauty of democracy that opposition isn't present on every issue. Support should be extended to issues that are in the nation's interest, irrespective of party politics. Everyone should do it.

There are two states where the upcoming elections could be interesting: Bihar and Maharashtra. Let's focus a bit on Bihar. Once again, Mr Nitish Kumar keeps changing sides. This time, you've also switched sides, giving them your 16 seats.

Look, brother, we haven't flipped this time. Nitish Babu has joined us. We were where we always were, by the banks of the Ganges.

He flipped and came back again.

We stayed by the banks of the Ganges, and eventually, someone came to join us.

But you gave them 16 seats.

No, that's the result of the Bihar unit, it's in front of you. The first time we are contesting on more seats than Nitish Kumar Ji’s party. That's a big deal for us, and I believe we will win Bihar very well.

You gave five seats to Chirag Paswan ji, but you dumped Pasupati Paras. Could there be an agreement with him as well? Now he also resigned from the ministry.

No. It's almost non-existent, nearly no. It would have been better if the whole family had come together, but it's okay.

Now that you have come as the elder brother here, will you also come as the elder brother in the Vidhan Sabha, and will the face of the Chief Minister be from the Bharatiya Janata Party?

Nothing is decided yet. Right now, we are focused on the Lok Sabha elections, aiming for 370 and 400 seats. After winning, we will plan the strategy for the future.

This time, you have taken smaller allies along with you in Bihar, and we are seeing a similar trend in Maharashtra. If we look at Maharashtra, first you brought in Shinde Ji, then Ajit Pawar came. Nowadays, you have met with Raj Thackeray. So, how many seats, last time you had 48 out of 41 seats, will you go above that?

We will win more than 41 seats in Maharashtra. And this arrogant alliance that is claiming that we broke the party, we didn't break any party. Breaking Shiv Sena was done by Uddhav Thackeray's son affection. If they had given due respect to Eknath Shinde, Shiv Sena wouldn't have broken. And breaking of NCP was done by Sharad Pawar Ji's daughter affection. If they had given due respect to Ajit Pawar, he would have stayed with them; he wouldn't have come with us. They were all in the government, but when you become blind in the love of your son and daughter, then alliances break. The blame should not be put on us for that.

How many seats will you contest on? Near about 30, what has been decided?

It hasn't been decided yet, but naturally, we will be the largest party in Maharashtra.

And after that, Shinde, Shinde Sena, and then Ajit Pawar.

Yes, most likely that's how it will be. The number of seats hasn't been decided yet.

In Punjab, there's sometimes negotiation with Akali Dal, sometimes not. Has there been any agreement? Captain Amarinder Singh and ...

The way you're asking questions sometimes seems like there are negotiations going on, and sometimes it seems like there aren't any negotiations at all. Right now, negotiation is going on. In negotiations, there's an offer, we give a counteroffer, they give another counteroffer, and this goes on. It’s a process, you should not see as a "yes" or "no".

So do you hope that—

I think the situation will be clear in the next two to three days.

But you want to fight together, don't you?

We want all our allies in the NDA to be with us again, to form the entire NDA once more. But it's also a matter of concern for us that the Bharatiya Janata Party's fair share and the respect of our workers should also be the subject of our concern.

So, there could be a reconciliation with Dushyant Chautala later in Haryana, the doors are not closed, he can still be in the NDA.

To say this will be too early. Right now, they have separated from us and declared that they will contest their seats. Then we will face each other in the elections, and when the results come, we will see. But right now, we are fighting head-to-head.

A few questions on these issues and states. In Andhra Pradesh or Telangana, how do you see your position? Will you remain strong in Telangana than the last time?

The kind of welcome the people of South India are giving to Modi ji with open arms is a matter of celebration and enthusiasm for the Bharatiya Janata Party. It's a matter of great joy for us that for the first time, BJP leaders are receiving such enthusiastic support from the people of South India. It's a matter of increasing enthusiasm for us. I firmly believe that our position will be consolidated in all five southern states, we’ll become stronger and will come forward bigger, not only us, our allies will also grow.

I want to talk a little about West Bengal. After Sandeshkali -- your position last time was 18 seats and people were not believing that - you told me in the interview that the position is very good, we were thinking that not 18 seats, but you got 18 seats. What do you think this time? Will it increase? And what is the reason for that?

I will tell you the size of the bottom now, because there is a lot of elections left, there will be elections in 7 phases. Our bottom figure is 25, we will definitely win more than 25 seats in Bengal. This time BJP will emerge as the largest party in Bengal.

25 seats, is big –

Over 25.

Over 25. So how will this happen? This is your – you are pretty weak in South East Bengal, last time you probably got only 2 seats out of 18 seats. That area is very important for you - Kolkata, Hooghly, 24 Parganas, Howrah. So how you do it here? Your organization is also probably not that strong there.

See, since 2017, BJP has continuously expanded its organization in West Bengal, and has also expanded in terms of electoral success. Since 2017 we have been continuously growing. If I talk about the assembly elections, we were two people, we became strong - it is a big jump. Congress 0, Communist Party 0. Today the prime opposition remains BJP. We had two Lok Sabha seats in '14 and 18 in '19, and this time we will move ahead, this is my belief. People of Bengal - These crores of rupees have been seized, they do not question ED in this, they have raised questions on Mamata ji, where does the money come from, whose money is it? This rupee is the money of the poor people of Bengal.

Modi ji's plans are not reaching there. The rate is that with this plan, Modi ji will become popular. What is the fault of the poor people of Bengal? Why are they not getting health facilities up to 5 blocks? Why is their grain going into the black market? Why is the tap water scheme not being implemented properly? Why was [inaudible] deprived till now? Only and only because of vote bank politics and propaganda reasons. Their propaganda has been exposed, Mamata ji has been exposed in front of the people of Bengal. The way sisters and mothers have been being tortured in Sandeshkhali for years under the rule of a woman Chief Minister, and by their party leaders. The Supreme Court and the courts have to intervene and then arrest them. She needs to be ashamed.

ED was also attacked

Leave the attack on ED aside, that is a different matter. I am talking about those Bengali mothers and sisters who voted. Let your party leaders torture them, you are not arresting them? And the High Court has to order. The people of Bengal know all this. This time, I request the mothers and sisters of Bengal to introduce the power to Rahul as well as Mamata ji.

This time Modi ji went to Kashmir after a long time. After the repeal of Article 370, a huge meeting was held there. Do you hope that you will do well in the elections there? Will any account be opened in Kashmir Valley?

See, opening or not opening BJP's account in Kashmir Valley is not a big deal. But, 3 dynastic parties - Congress Party, National Conference and PDP -- these 3 dynastic parties did not allow democracy to flourish there. Panchayat elections have not been held there since independence. For the first time, we conducted elections for 30,000 Panch and Sarpanches, hence Panchayat was formed, District Panchayat was formed. Earlier, those three parties whose chits were torn were the leaders.

I have come to tell the Muslim brothers and sisters of the valley that please, if you want democracy to go down from low to high, the public system to go down to low level, life to go down to its basic level, then this should be done by cleaning up the dynastic parties. Two. Vote for whoever you want, but democracy is coming only in Kashmir. This was the occasion of 370, BJP government, Modi ji abolished 370. Today, every Kashmiri has got more than Rs 5 lakh worth of healthy water, rice, healthy saree facilities, big institutions have come. More than 2 crore travelers are now going to Kashmir today. Theaters are open in Kashmir after 30 years, Tajia processions are taking place in Kashmir after 30 years, Muharram processions are taking place. This has happened because of the restoration of democracy.

One must muster courage. Those who deprived the people of Kashmir of democracy for 75 years, deprived them of constitutional rights and kept them deprived of the schemes of their central government, punish them, strengthen democracy, vote for BJP, whoever you want to vote for. Give, but once the three dynastic parties in the valley should learn a lesson.

When will elections be held in Kashmir? I have asked you this question many times before. This time it has been said that there is some shortage of paramilitary forces because national elections are being held, so no – so does this mean that they should be held soon?

The Supreme Court has ordered to do it by September. So this is the outer limit, it will be done before September.

One question that comes up again and again is that your slogan was that they will build the temple, it was built by you and it was consecrated. There is another slogan which is, right now this is just a glimpse, Kashi and Mathura are yet to come. So will we get to see this in the next 5 years?

Look, all these issues are pending in the court, it is not appropriate for me to say anything right now. But I definitely want to say one thing. Our Palampur executive and BJP's promise regarding the Ram temple was that we will build a grand temple of Lord Shri Ram in Ayodhya as per the constitution. Modi ji did the work for which crores of Ram devotees were waiting for 500 years, in 5 years, the decision of the Supreme Court came, Bhoomi Pujan was also done, and on 22nd January, Lord Shri Ram was consecrated in his grand temple. Narendra Modi also did the work of enthroning him. And I believe that what is happening is a moment, a moment of 10000 years, remember my words, not only India, the world will not forget this moment for 10,000 years, and this is a huge example of democracy, because Despite Hindus being in majority in India, for 75 years we waited for the court to order us, only then we will build the temple and in a completely constitutional manner, we built the temple with the court's order. There are very few such examples in the world that India has given, and we consider it fortunate for all of us to have it in the time of Modi ji and in the time of BJP.

I cannot let you go without asking questions about Uttar Pradesh. Will your performance this time in Uttar Pradesh be better than 2014?

We will definitely do our best ever performance in Uttar Pradesh, more seats than 2014.

This means, you can win in Rae Bareilly, Kannauj, Mainpuri, Azamgarh, all these ...

Don't read the names of seats, the entire people of Uttar Pradesh are suffering from communalism. This time I am confident that it will teach a lesson to the family based parties.

Every time you are interviewed, many questions are asked and discussions are held across the country. Tell us some achievements of the Home Ministry in the last 5 years, which do you consider to be the biggest?

See, no achievement can be big or small. Every achievement has its own importance. The smallest decision can be very big, at its own place. Like I say, when 5 kg of RDX is caught, people feel - so many columns come that RDX has been caught today. If he is not caught, 2000 people will be killed in the bomb blast. So this is a question of perspective. But I definitely want to say, peace within Kashmir, surrender of more than 9000 militants by signing more than 10 agreements in North East, almost ending leftist extremism, strict control on narcotics, and many more things.

We have worked to secure the internal security of the country. Disaster management, which is one of Modi ji's initiatives across the country, has also been taken forward by the Home Ministry under the leadership of Modi ji and under his direct guidance. A lot of work has been done, but I want to say one thing, be it the Social Welfare Department, be it the Defense Ministry, be it the Home Ministry, be it the Finance Ministry, if the best performance has happened in the ministry in the 75 years of independence, then it is this This has happened in 10 years, and in 10 years both the face and character of the country have changed.

The country has started getting respect in the world. What India says today matters. When someone goes with an Indian passport, he is looked at with respect, and not only Indians, the whole world has faith in the future of India, that the coming 25 years are India's last 5 years. When Modi ji comes to seek blessings of the people of the country, we have a track record of 10 years and an agenda of 25 years. The opposition has neither a track record nor an agenda. There is no leader, no policy. BJP is in front of you all with the vision of creating a great India with a concrete agenda. You support, bless Modi ji, bless BJP, if you give more blessings, please vote a little, make it cross 400, this is my request to all of you. Thank you.

Amit ji, you work day and night, we were talking today, meetings go on till 3 in the morning, 4 in the night. Today your religious wife, Sonal ji is also here with us, so how do you find accommodation for the house? We talk about work-life balance, how is work-wife balance?

See, it is not a public thing, but I tell you that I cannot take out time for the family, family chooses the time for me, so our balance is maintained, the family plays a big role in that.

(This translation of the interaction has been edited for clarity)