Lokpal Bill impotent if CBI not included: Mohandas Pai

Excerpts from India Business Hour on CNBC-TV18 Watch the full show »

As Team Anna is all set to go on another hunger strike from the December 27, and Jail Bharo Andolan from December 30, the question is whether this is the right approach to get rid of corruption. Backing Anna Hazare's demand, Mohandas Pai, Director of Manipal Universal Learning and the Former Director of Infosys said the CBI has to be under the control of the Lokpal to make it effective.

"The challenge in India for corruption cases has been the lack of investigation, the lack of resources and the lack of integrity in the investigation. If we don't want a Lokpal that is impotent, CBI needs to under its control or it is not going to work," he opined.

Further, Pai said that the goverment is occupied by the Lokpal issue to address corporate India's policy paralysis concerns. However, he added that India Inc has to be a little bit more patient because if corruption doesn't settle, the future will be very dark.

Below is an edited transcript of Mohandas Pai's interview to CNBC-TV18. Also watch the accompanying video.

Q: What do you make of the demand now on part of Team Anna to go on another hunger strike from the 27th December and Jail Bharo Andolan from 30th December? Is this the right approach even though we want to get rid of corruption?

A: The most important thing required in the Lokpal Bill is the independence of an investigation agency that reports to the Lokpal. It is not there right now because the CBI will be under the administrative control of the government. There is a trust deficit between the citizen’s of this country and the government.

So it’s better to split up the CBI into two parts ¬– one part remains with the government to do whatever they do with the political opponents and other part to be under the control of the Lokpal, so that the CBI will be fully supporting the Lokpal. They will be under the control of the Lokpal. Their careers will depend upon what they perform and they will be independent for investigation.

The challenge in India for corruption cases has been the lack of investigation, the lack of resources and the lack of integrity in the investigation. You don’t want a Lokpal to be impotent, Anna is right; CBI has to be under the control of the Lokpal to make it effective. If you don’t, it is not going to work.

Q: While Anna may be right in his demand for bringing the CBI under the purview of Lokpal, but the fact of the matter is that there are lot of ground realities which have been covered. We have actually seen the Parliament being extended to take up the Lokpal debate which will now start on the 27th. Is there not now a requirement of as the former attorney general Soliee Sorabjee is calling of patience on the part of team Anna? Can this country in that sense be held ransom on the back of this particular issue?

A: The government has never been pro-active in this on corruption. For 40 years, we have not passed the law; the Parliament has been debating and deferring it. So, I think we are now in the last stage. Another 5-10% effort is required on the part of the government. I don’t see why the government should not put CBI under the Lokpal. Split up the CBI, so government has its own CBI and one part of the CBI comes fully under the Lokpal to investigate corruption cases, so it satisfies everybody.

Government gets the CBI that it wants and the Lokpal gets the CBI and is fully empowered. They can investigate independently and India gets a very good anti-corruption organization. It’s the last mile and the government should step up. The last thing they must not slip because posterity will not forgive the government in case the Lokpal is made impotent after this big struggle.

Q: What about the corporate India because it has spent part of 2011 complaining about policy paralysis? The policy paralysis is far from over because the government’s bandwidth and time and energy and resources have been spent on trying to push the Lokpal Bill through the Parliament. What is corporate India going to say about policy paralysis now?

A: I agree that the government is completely occupied with this one particular issue. However, this is the biggest issue for India right now. Corruption is eating into the vitals of society, destroying of infrastructure, creating crony capitalism, siphoning off the money that belongs to the poor and to all of us and making sure that tax payers money that all of us pay does not get value.

We have to solve this problem whatever be the crisis. If you don’t solve this problem, if it continues, we may grow for 2-3 years and we will fall back. So, I think it is very important that corporate India also understands that this problem has to be solved. The government has to step up on reforms, has to take decisions, and has to be careful. The civil society is affecting the government.

Apart from the Anna issue, civil society has suddenly taken on a life of its own, has a view on every policy matter and tries to go to court and everything. The court is also overstepping its jurisdiction, infringing on the rights of executive, which is a separate issue. However, corruption is the foremost issue. We need to make sure that the three organs, the government, the executive, the legislature and the judiciary work in their own domains and now each is encroaching on the other. However, that is a separate issue, hence; we need this corruption issue to be settled first. Corporate India has to be a little bit more patient because if you don’t settle this our future will be very dark.