Exclusive Interview: Not going to be a slave to investors again in my life, says BharatPe cofounder Ashneer Grover

After a bruising battle with the board and management, BharatPe cofounder Ashneer Grover decided to resign: The Rs 4,000 crore the entrepreneur was demanding to leave the firm is not on the table yet but he doesn't need it to start afresh, going by his exclusive high octane interview to Moneycontrol.

In the QnA, Grover comes across as visibly hurt, offended and bruised and makes no attempt to repress his emotions.

He launches scathing attacks yet again on everyone, literally everyone, associated with BharatPe -- investors, lawyers and independent directors.

Why was his family dragged into all of this, he asks again and again!

In a long conversation that comes soon after news of the resignation today, Grover talks about the large issues, his experience with investors and the decision which led to his quitting the firm.

Moneycontrol reached out to BharatPe, chairman Rajnish Kumar and Sequoia and for their responses to the allegations made by Grover. While Sequoia declined to comment, BharatPe and Kumar did not respond till press time.

Edited excerpts:

What led to this decision?

The whole process is a sham. You have decided what you want. There is no consideration for any process. You are just going after me, my wife, my whole family. Have you even called me once? Have the investors even spoken to me even once? What kind of a process is this where the chairman of SBI can't run a confidential process for a month?

What will be your next move?

I will not disclose. I am very clear, I will be a private person. Not here to lead my life as per the media, not going to be a slave to these investors again in my life. Will lead life on my own terms.

I am now looking up to people like Turakhias (Bhavin) and Kamath (Nitin) who have the courage to build businesses with 100% ownership. It will take a bit longer to build, I will be in control of what I build and not build it for these people who are opportunistic.

Do you think this was an injustice to you and your family given that your wife was associated with the company as a very senior executive?

Of course, it is. Not just injustice, it is male chauvinism at best.

In the termination letter, they have mentioned about a laser treatment. I can tell you the level of blatant lies they have gone to. My wife had a skin condition. She was undergoing a doctor's treatment and that bill is a private bill. She had paid for it. It was just lying in the drawer. They picked that up and said you claimed this bill from the company.

I dare them -- Amarchand -- Shardul (Shroff), Pallavi (Shroff) -- what kind of process are you running? There's no audit. You can put anything in the letter. Why? Because you want to have it in the media and set a narrative.

To hell with all of them.

Ashneer, you seemed to be pretty determined to put up a fight. But now you are in a different mode. You are saying you don't want this anymore. What really triggered this thought process?

I have class. These people have no class. I am sorry but Rajnish Kumar, Keval Handa, Micky, Harjit, Rahul Kishore... I don't even need to speak about Sumeet (Singh) and Suhail (Sameer). I am not going to be in the company of these people. I have so much dirt on them, I can tell you tomorrow if I start speaking, Sequoia will not be able to make a single investment in India. You will have ED, CBI behind them.

This is with regard to which investment?

I know so much but why should I fire in the air? I dare Sequoia to come on a TV debate. Let Sequoia nominate anyone to speak.

What happens to the case, now that you have put in your papers?

It is a made-up case. They can do whatever they want to do. You think, I don't have 10 cases to put against them? Bhavik Koladiya is calling me from Rajnish Kumar's house and threatening me ... that is just the tip of the iceberg. I have thousands against them lying with me.

What happens next? You will continue to be a shareholder?

I am the single largest shareholder of the company. My shares are my commercial considerations. I might hold them or sell them to the highest bidder.

But no plans for now?

Why should I, it's my life. I am not playing a role here in the public drama.

As we speak currently you have just resigned, the proceedings will happen as it is and then you will decide what needs to be done with your shares.

It is a sham proceeding. I am challenging Rajnish Kumar to a TV debate. If you are right, you can all hold your own against a 39 year old guy.

These people can't even look me in the eye because they have stolen what I have built.

Has the board offered you any monetary compensation?

I am not a beggar. The board can't even look me in the eyes. I am not at their mercy. They are at our mercy. The investors need founders, we don't need them. We would have built up irrespective.

Did SIAC's (Singapore International Arbitration Centre) decision against you also played a role in your decision to resign?

No, how is that a trigger point.

We learn that the board sent you a notice for a meeting last night. Did you take the decision after that?

I got something at 11:56 pm in the night. Look at the email I have written, do you think that email can be written in five minutes?

But will you be attending the meeting for which the notice has come?

No. I live life on my own terms. I don't acknowledge this board. It is a contravention of every single law of the land.

I will take this up to the Minister of Corporate Affairs and I will put the timeline ... this is not how meetings are done... cameras have been switched off by the investors and you know why? Because at that particular time, that investor is giving WhatsApp instructions to everyone in the meeting on how to vote.

Which investor? Tell me more.

In the meeting, the investors asked to switch off the camera so that at that time when voting is happening in the meeting, they can give instructions to people on how to vote. I picked it up.

Which day are you referring to?

People were there in the board meeting without their names being in the agenda. Why was Shardul Shroff attending the meeting on 25th ....

Have you heard from Rajnish Kumar following your resignation?

He has no status to look to me in the eye, nor does any other investor. You think Rajnish Kumar is an independent director? He has ESOPs in the company.

You tell me: is the board acting in a manner where they can run the company even for two days? Boss kisko pain hai? Maine banaya hai, mujhko pain hai. Mai har roz news padhta hu to mera khoon khaulta hai. Tum meri company barbaad kar rahe ho, jo maine business banaya. What is the fight for? Tum to do paise ke liye ladh rahe ho. Mai to apni company bachane ke liye ladh raha hu.

(Do you know who is in pain due to all that is happening? I built the company from scratch, I am in pain. Every day, when I read about BharatPe in the news. My blood boils everyday when I read the news. You are destroying BharatPe, a company I built. While everyone else involved is fighting simply for money, I am waging a battle to save my company.)

What will be your way forward?

I am Ashneer Grover. I am a builder. I will do whatever I need to build things. I am not answerable to anyone.

But will you completely dissociate yourself from BharatPe?

I will be a shareholder.

Till the time you get a buyer?

I don't need a buyer. You think I am dependent on my holding in BharatPe to live? Today also if I say I am starting something, I can raise Rs 1,000 crore from the public.

Has anyone shared any details with you of the Alvarez and Marsal and PwC governance review?

Not even a single word. I have not been called by the company, have not been sent an email or told what is happening, because they know I have answers for everything.

I’ll tell you why they don’t call me – because they know how much I know about them. When I start talking, these people will not be allowed to do business in India.

We understand that Madhuri Jain Grover was called for a meeting where she was apprised of the findings of the review and she was asked to clarify. Can you comment?

She was called for a meeting. We said our son’s exams are on and asked if she could come for the meeting two days later. That request was rejected and she was asked to be present the next day itself. This was the first time she was being called -- it was not that they asked her to come for a meeting multiple times and we rejected.

We drove down to the venue and we were accompanied by our lawyers, she went inside for the meeting alone. Our lawyers requested if they can join her in the meeting, they refused. Why can’t lawyers sit with Madhuri?

Secondly, they did not produce a single piece of paper for her to react. Not a single document. She was there for three hours, not a single washroom break and they did not even have the courtesy to offer her food.

The moment she started talking about what others including Suhail (Sameer) have done, they stopped her and said this is only about you. They did not give a single piece of paper. Where is the concept of natural justice?

Your decision to resign was a personal one or did your lawyers advise you?

Do you think I listen to anyone’s advice? Thankfully God has given me my mind and I have enough courage to take decisions on my own.

Do you have a message for the founders?

I have a message for all the founders in the country – don’t be a slave to these VCs. They act like the East India Company and make everyone a slave. They think that we will build a business for them even if it means destroying our own lives. Then they will sideline you using their politics.

I implore all founders – you all are fighting lonely battles. It is going to get lonelier. Get your lawyers and make sure that in the worst of the scenarios these investors can do nothing. And my request to all founders is to maintain more than 51 percent equity, don’t dilute below that. Ever.

Plus, I have a demand from the government. No board meetings in India should be held on Zoom. Can investors not come to India for two years? I am here managing the business, you are sitting in your ivory tower elsewhere and you will tell me what to do in a board meeting? Have you (investors) ever come to India? Do they even know where to land and how long it takes to reach the hotel from the airport?

Zoom meetings have to be banned in India. They are being misused. How can you allow someone to be a director when that person has never come to India?

Ira Puranik and M Sriram contributed to this story.