Full transcript of Hardeep Singh Puri's address at Rising Bharat Summit 2025

Hardeep Singh Puri:
Anand, I have known you for a long time. But I would have been surprised if you hadn't asked me the question. But a little surprised that after an hour-long press conference yesterday, you still asked me the question. But since you asked it, I owe it to you and your distinguished invitees to explain.

Anand Narasimhan:
We'll talk LPG first.

Hardeep Singh Puri:
No, LPG. Let's go with LPG first. We provide LPG first number of connections. It was 14 crores in 2014. Today it's 33 crores. If one connection is for one household, so you multiply and each household has four people, we have covered the entire population of India and more. You have 100% saturation. We provide the world's cheapest cooking gas. For an Ujjwala beneficiary, it comes to five rupees a day. And for a non-beneficiary, it comes to 14 rupees a day. For every cylinder that is sold, we incur a loss of 500 rupees per Ujjwala beneficiary. 500 rupees. So there was a context in which it had to be done. We were in a particularly difficult environment. That is the environment in which we were providing three meals of dry ration in a day during the lockdown and pandemic. It's still continuing.

But today what happened as a result of the 503 rupees Ujjwala cylinder is that the companies which were supplying that, they have incurred a loss, and it's a cumulative loss, of something like 41,000 crores. Now, I'm a student of subsidies. Money has to come from somewhere. It doesn't grow on trees as a former Prime Minister said. So what we've done is something very basic. The price of a cylinder has been raised by 50 rupees only, which means the cost to a family of four, which is using those figures, it's marginal. But we have also raised the excise duty on petrol and diesel by two rupees. Now, there was a big halla yesterday when they saw the finance ministry notification here that the price has increased.

We clarified that the price at the petrol retail point will not go up. It will remain the same. What we'll do is we'll collect some resources, which will help, because we are committed to those oil companies. Last time, they incurred a loss of 28,000 crores on gas, we compensated them by 22,000 crores. So this is to do that.

Now you come to the second part of your question. Oil prices are coming down. Wonderful news. You know something? We spend something like $150 billion a year on oil imports. If the oil price is down 20%, which means we save 30% overall, $30 billion, that is the value of our exports. But all things good, my friend, have to be sustained. If the oil price today is 61.89 yesterday, I don't know what it is as of this morning, because I've been in functions like this. Today, we are carrying 45 days of reserves. The price in beginning January for oil was $83 a barrel. And if I take the average of the 45 days, it comes to something like $75 a barrel. Now, if the price goes even from 60 to 65 or more, yes, the oil marketing companies will have headroom to bring prices down. But it's a deregulated sector.

I can't keep telling them, “Come on, now start claiming under-recovery on petrol and diesel too — and on gas as well.” But they are called very responsible corporate citizen. They're very good people. They helped us out on gas. We are compensating them. And petrol and diesel, let your red attire of the day signal that if the trend remains like this, yes, they will bring the prices down.

Anand Narasimhan:
But that's the criticism. The criticism is that whether it's 100 rupees a barrel or 60 rupees a barrel, the consumer is still paying 100 rupees or 95 rupees.

Hardeep Singh Puri:
No, no, no, no — that's not true. Please do one thing. You guys have lots of resources. News18 is very influential channel, please make a list of those who creates so much noise of petrol and diesel prices. I tell you the result right now. There are people of a certain ideology, a political party—I won’t take names—that still has governments in two or three places, where they charge 10 to 12 rupees more than the national level. When it comes to prices, these are the people who create the noise. In BJP ruled states and those states there is a difference of 10 to 12 rupees. If you see the difference between Lucknow and a nearby non-BJP state, there’s a difference of 10 rupees. If you look at Assam and another non-BJP state closest to it—I didn’t name West Bengal. I didn’t name it. But if you look at proximity, that’s what comes up. See, this is hypocrisy of the highest order. And it's like, people who don’t understand certain things... Arrey, you're talking... I said, brother, the stock we have—that 45-day stock—was not bought at 60. I think it’s a very legitimate point to make. When the stock you are holding was bought at 60, and you have goods piled up in your shop that you bought at 80, and then someone says the price has gone down to 60—why should you sell it at a loss?" Is it possible?

Anand Narasimhan:
But Hardeep ji, when the prices had gone up to 100, even then there was a 45-day buffer. At that time, they had bought the stock at 80, but the price back then...

Hardeep Singh Puri:
No, no, no.

Anand Narasimhan:
And another thing—aren’t you mentioning Mumbai?

Hardeep Singh Puri:
Whose?

Anand Narasimhan:
Mumbai, and have you looked at Madhya Pradesh too, in terms of fuel prices? There’s a BJP government there, but the fuel prices haven’t gone down.

Hardeep Singh Puri:
No, no, no. Look, even in BJP-ruled states, prices have gone down. Even in Madhya Pradesh, prices have gone down, but we do not direct states. Let me give you two very simple indicators. Whenever international prices go up, you have the option to organize yourself. We didn’t let it affect the consumer, we didn’t let them suffer. In fact, the Prime Minister, on two occasions—November 21, 2021, and May 2022—reduced the excise duty on petrol and diesel by 16 rupees and 13 rupees respectively. And then the BJP ruled state brought the VAT down. That's how it came down. So, we took the hit in the central excise, number one.

Number two—look, when the Congress government was in power, and there was a very learned Finance Minister—he even tweeted today. I admire the fact that it was a mild tweet. He said, ‘What I said yesterday should be critically analyzed.’ And I want to critically analyze what he did. When prices reached 128 dollars per barrel, what did the Congress government do? They said, ‘Look, we need to give cheap fuel to the consumer right now, so we’ll float oil bonds.’ And they did float oil bonds worth ₹1,40,000 crore. And today, after so many years—12, 13, 14 years later—we are paying back ₹3,10,000 crore

So, this is also a very easy way that you take the debt and you get your grandchildren to pay it back. So, I think when the history of this period is written, you will find that the Modi decade and decade plus is transformational. We have oil prices, we have petrol, diesel prices, lowest in the world. Coming down over a 3 year reference period during the 10 months. Domestic gas has never been so cheap. You compare it to the countries in the neighborhood, you compare it to anyone else, any country in the world is cheaper. So, within that we are doing an adjustment to make sure that in the process of providing cylinder at 503 rupees, the company doesn't go down. So, we are reimbursing them.

Anand Narasimhan:
So, let's look at those numbers. LPG, that's what we've put those numbers, Mantri ji. So, in Bharat, it was 1,053.

Hardeep Singh Puri:
That's a normal cylinder.

Anand Narasimhan:
Yeah, normal cylinder. In April 25, it's 803. So, compared to 2022, the consumer is still paying about 200 rupees lesser. Pakistan, meanwhile, has seen a 5.53% up. Bharat is minus 23.7%. And if you look at Sri Lanka, it's a 10.6% up. Nepal, 5.73% up. So, these are the prices in the neighborhood. But their terms for oil is different. Their terms for LPG…

Hardeep Singh Puri:
No, I asked this question when I saw this. I said, was this figure or the figures in the chart, were they equalized for currency exchange rates? They have been equalized.

Anand Narasimhan:
So, it's after the equalization of currency.

Hardeep Singh Puri:
Yes, it's after the equalization.

Anand Narasimhan:
Let's look at oil and petrol and test your theory that compared to other countries, how much is oil and petrol?

Hardeep Singh Puri:
No, but I should also, I should also just, just hold on. Because I'm not a party to this. Let me explain to you. The Indian LPG price is determined by something called the Saudi contract price. That Saudi contract price during this period has gone up by a massive amount. And we have come down. So, we've come down by 23%, whereas the Saudi contract price has gone up by 60%. This is the beauty of this thing. I don't know whether you have a figure like that, but you please go ahead to the next chart, we'll look at it here.

Anand Narasimhan:
No, I have, I have the chart here of the Saudi CP and this is what, we've not put it up there, but that's what you're saying. So, the Saudi CP at this point, you're saying the actual, there is a difference at 803 and at 1028 and 600 times. So, the Saudi contract price, that's the base price because bulk of the gas is procured from there and that's where it's benchmarked. So, you're saying, but the consumer will only think that it has increased by 50 rupees.

Hardeep Singh Puri:
No, no, the consumer will not think if you explain it to the consumer. By nowhere in the world does the consumer say that the economic utilities should not be viable. You go on promising something… The political party that still has one or two states left, sometimes they inflate the price of milk, sometimes they raise the fare of buses. Like the Aam Aadmi Party said that every sister will get one thousand rupees. It has been forty months, and no sister has received one thousand rupees. So, the point is, you have to have credibility in what you are putting before the people. Now, in this case, whatever you do, you compare the prices, this was, by the way, minus 23%. And the other places are going up at 10% or 5, 6%. If you look at petrol, diesel, you were coming to that. I'm sorry I stopped you.

Anand Narasimhan:
Let's look at the petrol, diesel numbers and we can show you those numbers. Now, Bharat, that's LPG. Yeah, that's petrol. So, as of now, we are minus 6.48% down compared to a Pakistan that's gone up to 54.2.

Hardeep Singh Puri:
Gone up by 55%.

Anand Narasimhan:
Gone up by 55%. But we don't benchmark ourselves with Pakistan anymore. We benchmark ourselves with some of the other countries. So, let's look at US.

Hardeep Singh Puri:
One minute, let's talk about benchmarking. When I was a civil servant, I was a foreign service officer for thirty-nine years. During the Congress government, India and Pakistan used to be the benchmark. It used to be hyphenate. Thank God we have got out of that. Because we are now one of the most successful economies. These are two countries born from the womb of the same mother in 1947. And we are today the fourth largest economy in the world. And Pakistan is a, I don't want to say anything, basket case.

Anand Narasimhan:
Yeah, but we also have an interim advisor who believes that without Bangladesh, we won't be able to survive.

Hardeep Singh Puri:
Who is this?

Anand Narasimhan:
That's what they said in Beijing.

Hardeep Singh Puri:
Who said? Leave that person.

Anand Narasimhan:
Okay, let's look at US, Italy.

Hardeep Singh Puri:
No, in US it went up by…

Anand Narasimhan:
Yeah, 27%.

Hardeep Singh Puri:
27%. So we are the only country which brought it down. I mean, there is a story in and of itself here.

Anand Narasimhan:
So we brought it down because we are buying oil from Russia.

Hardeep Singh Puri:
No, no, no, no, no, no, wait, wait. We are buying oil from 27 countries earlier. Now we are then buying from 39. And then we started buying from Argentina, which makes it 40. By the way, you can buy oil from anywhere. If your policies are sound, what you turn around and say, I will issue a tender at the point of importation. Those who have stock can supply us. That is why we are successful.

Anand Narasimhan:
There is a Trump brother, he also has oil, and now he has also opened his…

Hardeep Singh Puri:
They are the world's largest producer. They produce 13 million barrels a day. Now they're going to be producing another 1.6 million barrels a day. But the issue is not that. They must have the oil to sell us. When they have the oil, but LNG they have. And I see a lot of increase in LNG. By the way, we've been buying 15 to 20 billion dollars of energy from them in any case in the last few years.

Anand Narasimhan:
So by buying more oil, more energy from them, are we going to be able to offset this entire tariff thing, sir?

Hardeep Singh Puri:
But why are you so mesmerized by this tariff thing?

Anand Narasimhan:
No, we are not mesmerized.

Hardeep Singh Puri:
No, no, but why? When there is a young leader, 54-year-old youth leader who made some statement, because in the last public event I went, they asked me, they said this. I said I don't give names of any leaders. Tell them to understand what a tariff is. See, that country where there is a tariff, every country is free to determine its own economic policies. But we are part of a multilateral system. We were original signatories to the GATT, General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade. WTO came, there was some negotiation. Somebody wants to change it because their thing is shut down? Don't comment on it. You have to deal with it. Brother, 40% of your exports are in services. The services sector is not covered by tariffs. Tariffs are applied on goods when they cross borders, but services just go—they can go over the top, from the sides, from anywhere. Services can be of many different types that you're providing. Some of your sectors are just now not covered. Like pharmaceuticals.

Look, I am not a trade, I am a student of trade negotiation, but just now when Piyush ji comes tomorrow evening, you ask him. My view is that he will exude a quiet confidence. We are one of the countries which is dealing with this and as my colleague Jai Shankar ji said, we are hopeful, following his discussions with the Secretary of State Rubio yesterday, we are hopeful of concluding an early trade agreement with the United States. So I think we are on track.

Anand Narasimhan:
You are on track. So you don't think Bharat is going to be adversely affected?

Hardeep Singh Puri:
Arrey brother, what does "adverse" even mean, yaar—explain that properly. There is an opportunity in every challenge.

Anand Narasimhan:
Is this disruption good or bad?

Hardeep Singh Puri:
There’s no such thing as good or bad. If you have strength, if you have resilience, you take advantage of a challenge and turn it into an opportunity. That’s exactly what happened in my life. When faced with a difficulty, come out of it stronger. Let me tell you, Prime Minister’s overall, his capacity to navigate this, and his team’s, is second to none. We will come out as winners in this.

Anand Narasimhan:
What's the message for the youth here?

Hardeep Singh Puri:
I am jealous of you, brother. I wish I was born when you guys were born.

Anand Narasimhan:
Why do you say that?

Hardeep Singh Puri:
I am telling you because I was born five years after the partition. It was a difficult time. When I went to the university, you know, we couldn't get a gas cylinder. I am just giving you an example. You had to be very influential to get a gas cylinder. You had to be even more influential to get a telephone connection. Even if you could afford it. When I left Delhi University, at a very young age, I was looking around for jobs. If you got a first class, you could get a teaching job in a Delhi University college. If you were very bright, there were two or three private sector companies that could hire you. And, if you were not so bright, I shouldn't say this but I will, you could become a lawyer. They did very well by the way. They did very well. But, the issue is today, look at our youngsters. They have been born. What would be the average age of the youth here? I suspect about 18-20 years old.

Anand Narasimhan:
18-20? Alright. Let's say 25.

Hardeep Singh Puri:
25. We are in 2025. We will be a developed India by 2047. That if you are 25 now, when you are 47 years old, you will be part of a developed country with an economy of the size of 30 trillion dollars, 35 trillion, 40 trillion, I don't know. So, when I say that I am envious that you have been born now, I mean it in a positive way. You should be very proud of the fact that you are born in a country which has a demographic plus, which is a country which is firing on all cylinders, the economy is growing at 6.5% at a time when the world economy is facing headwinds. I mean the major economies in the world, I mean I am not going to go into what the chances of a recession are as a result of X, Y or Z. I am not going to. But look at them. We will overcome these challenges. We will go from a 4 trillion to a 7 to a 10 trillion dollar economy.

So as I said, if you are their age, the employment opportunities, their challenge is all right. Because today, you know, artificial intelligence and all these other technological breakthroughs, they are producing a new kind. So, skilling also will be required because you know you have one part of the population, basic skilling is required, then you have another one which is very high skilling. I was talking to some of your invitees outside. I mean mind-boggling what these startups are doing in Silicon Valley, in other places. Mind-boggling stuff. You know, I…

Anand Narasimhan:
Not just delivery services.

Hardeep Singh Puri:
Huh?

Anand Narasimhan:
Not just delivery services.

Hardeep Singh Puri:
No, no. Let's be serious about it. I was telling you the story when I went to India Energy Week last year and we were taking the Honorable Prime Minister around. You know, they went to the BPCL stall. They had a electrolyzer there, domestically manufactured in collaboration with BARC, Baba Atomic Energy and so on, where they used the original technology which was there in a submarine where it used to produce oxygen for the crew inside the… and they produced it for green hydrogen. So, when I go around, startups, you know, those comments you are referring to, they were in a particular context. The fact of the matter is, India today, both in terms of the unicorns and… we have a-- innovation and technology is one of our strengths and these young people going into that strength, you are still very young but I don't claim to be part of the innovative lot. I am set in my ways. I try to be innovative in my limited way but you know, there are limitations to that.

Anand Narasimhan:
Final question, we have run out of time but I just want to quickly ask you, have you ever faced discrimination as a Sikh in Bharat and this entire narrative that's being trying to be drummed up post-84, et cetera, et cetera. I have to ask you this, Hardeep Ji because there will be a lot of people who will want you to…

Hardeep Singh Puri:
I have never faced any discrimination of anything and not because I am a Sikh. When I was a four-year-old kid and you know, Sikh children don't cut their hair, I used to have a little chudai tied around so I was going to a kindergarten in Germany, four or five or six years old, I don't know. So, you know, the German boys, very, you know, those blonde, blue eyed guys, So I used to say, "What's this? Long hair? So they tried to tease me a little. So I had a, you know, my mother had a German friend, we used to call her a second mother. So she said, next time somebody, take your shoe and just kick them under the knee, not too hard. I did it once or twice, and it turned out perfectly fine. After that, things really improved. No one ever bullied me, and no one else either… India is the safest haven for all minorities, believe me. And the Sikhs who say, “Oh brother, you should go settle in Canada or somewhere else,” they should come up with a different story. Not because they’re being discriminated against or persecuted here. That’s complete BS. Sikhs and… Look, we are a small percentage of the population — what is it now, around 1.4% of the total. Our contribution to the armed forces is 20%. Our contribution to anything, when I joined the foreign service, we had five Sikhs in my batch, I mean, not all wearing turban, but most of them wearing turban. So the Sikhs have never faced discrimination anywhere.

This appeasement politics around minorities—oh, there’s been discrimination, this and that—come on, look at yourselves. And now, what a foolish stance they're taking on the recent legislation. I must say, for all minorities, India is the safest haven.

Anand Narasimhan:
Ladies and gentlemen, Shri Hardeep Puri. Hope you enjoy the session. Hardeep ji, thank you so much. I think we can be a little more warmer and louder with a round of applause. Thank you very, very much. Thank you, sir. Thank you so much.