'The countdown to bringing Vijay Mallya back has started'

The government on Friday said it had suspended the diplomatic passport of embattled tycoon and lawmaker Vijay Mallya, who left the country last month amid pressure from lenders to repay about Rs 9,000 crore in debt owed by his defunct Kingfisher Airlines.The move comes as a blow to Mallya, who may now be left with no other option but to return to the country to face proceedings, lawyers Majeed Memon and Hitesh Jain of ALMT Legal told CNBC-TV18.Below is the verbatim transcript of Hitesh Jain, ALMT and Majeed Memon, Senior Advocate’s interview with Nisha Poddar on CNBC-TV18.Q: What happens next, now that the diplomatic passport has been suspended; is this really coming in as a very, very strong step taken by the Indian government and what happens next with Vijay Mallya. What are the options open in front of him?Jain: Well, this is one of the severe steps that has been taken by the authority to ensure his presence for the investigation. He was summonsed thrice, he did not appear and since he has travelled on a diplomatic passport, they have suspended it. In view of the suspension today, he is there without valid travel document on foreign soil and he faces a risk of deportation also. Unless, he is able to spring a surprise by procuring a passport from some other country or some sort of political asylum. We will be get to know, but effectively currently, since he is claiming himself as a global businessman who has global assets, things are going to keep getting difficult. The authority will take force steps to ensure that it doesn’t rest with suspension of passport. If he is not cooperating in spite of suspension -- if he is not submitting himself to the authorities and offering to travel to India -- he is going to face some severe action. People are trying to draw the parallel from Lalit Modi’s case but it is not that easy because since Vijay Mallya, as I mentioned, claims himself to be a global businessman with global assets. It is not going to be that easy and he will have to look for credit lines in other countries and everything. So insofar as the financials things are concerned when you are hoodwinking the banking authorities who also have a global presence, and once the authorities apply a financial squeeze, it is not that easy to stay in that country. So according to me, the countdown to getting Vijay Mallya has started and for him, the sooner he cooperates with the authorities and make himself submit for the investigation, it will be better for him.Q: I wanted to understand, legally, is a suspension same as revocation or is there a chance for Vijay Mallya to really get this right even now if he appeals to the Government of India?Memon: Suspension is the first step and it is on the line of proceeding further for enforcing his personal appearance in this country to face the charges. Well, this is how the law proceeds, but then it is little too late for the government to wake up and rise and take action against this man. If you look at ordinary cases, even if there is a small allegation against somebody and Enforcement Directorate (ED) calls him or Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) calls him, the first thing they do when they have the slightest apprehension that the man is likely to flee from country is to call upon the subject to immediately deposit his passport for which even the Court orders may not be necessary at all times. In any case, it is not difficult to secure a court’s order when a case of this magnitude -- where such a huge sum was due to be recovered from this man and all proceedings were on simultaneously -- one does not understand why the government and the agencies did not act in that direction. After permitting him to swiftly pass away from India and now once that he has left India -- and as we all know that he being a Member of Parliament (MP) having his some last few weeks as a MP -- he is in possession of diplomatic passport, which is definitely a strong travel document for any person to have and he has gone and landed in United Kingdom (UK).It is very difficult to secure his presence back in India no matter we now start taking rigorous steps like applying to the Court for a non-bailable warrant against him or we apply for even Red Corner Notice for his movements throughout the country. We may take the help of international agencies like Interpol to stall him somewhere and best if ever we succeed what would happen look at the cases of we have got a history of five or six cases of seeking extradition. We have the case of Iqbal Mirchi where we failed, where we have the case of Nadeem Saifi of Nadeem-Shravan, where we failed. Then we had Abu Salem’s case where we got him accosted in Portugal and brought him from there, when he was arrested there. It’s that not easy particularly from UK where human right values are very high or on a very high pedestal, a smallest allegation against the state or against the government or some section of the society which is vindictive against him will make a good defence for him and therefore it’s long time consuming, money consuming exercise and according to me it’s an exercise in futility because this man is rich enough to buy asylum or buy some residential permit because he can invest huge sum there and then any small country will permit him to officially stay there and therefore it would be as if it’s a gone case to get him back to India and face these charges.Q: You think really that chances are very bleak of now getting him back to India or recovering that sum that lenders owe to that company, his company Kingfisher Airlines over 7000 odd crore rupee but one point before you joined in that Mr Hitesh Jain was making here is that this particular case is very similar akin to what happened with Lalit Modi and the case is just going on and on is dragging alone, is this what you agree to as well.Memon: Well certainly, Jain is absolutely right; see as I said in a very brief one sentence that its time consuming and money consuming and maybe ultimately an exercise in futility, so it sums up everything.Q: So what do you think the next course of action could be from Vijay Mallya’s side. Now you think that UK government is clearly to be giving him some asylum or giving him some help so he cannot be extradited to India.Memon: According to me it is not difficult for Vijay Mallya to successfully defend this Indian government move of securing him here back physically because it is very easy in UK to raise some kind of an objection and successfully defeat the application for request for sending the fugitive back to this country, but I have been saying from day one that when an offer which is reasonable enough like he first agreed to give Rs 4000 crore, then he said Rs 6000 crore something like then, that should have been accepted. The banks should not be very stubborn on this. Please accept whatever money you get and then of course let the man come back to law. See, now it is very difficult if you resort to these vigorous methods of securing his presence like humiliated condemned prisoner or an accused he is certainly not going to come back. He will have the best of the legal advisors internationally and he has enough money to fight out on whatever line the Government of India may do.Q: Now it is much easier for Vijay Mallya to fight this out, the entire sum and also Majeed Memon mentioned that Rs 4000 crore offer that Mallya had given should have been probably accepted, at least he was giving something out of the entire money which will stand to be contested and may be Indian government and the lenders will find it even more difficult to recover any bit of it now?Jain: I do not agree. Perhaps Majeed Memon was trying to wear his political hat and trying to make a point. However as far as the banks authorities are concerned they have the details of the assets, although it is global. Today things have become lot more transparent. It is easier to reach out to the assets. The aim is not just to put him behind bars, the aim is to recover the money. If the authorities are confident that they have assets against which they can have recourse to, getting Rs 3000-4000 crore there are securities that have been pledged and securities that have been offered. I am sure the banks in their wisdom would have taken a judgement call and they would have looked at the situation. Certainly Rs 4000 crore was not something like he was ready to pay today or tomorrow by way of cheque. The offer of Rs 4000 crore had come with a rider and those riders were something where it was very difficult to see whether you are going to see the end of the tunnel with those riders.So, according to me Rs 4000 crore was just a negotiating tactic. I don't think the situation is as desperate as Majeed Memon is pointing out.Today the situation with cooperation among the banks globally it is not easy, certainly you can do that but to survive in a country without a valid document, with authorities behind you, once you are a businessman, once a financial squeeze is applied you are unable to do the business, I think things are going to be difficult. At the end of the day if he claims himself to be businessman who would like to do business with who is running away like an absconder.Ultimately does he want to be in a situation where he keeps on running and he doesn't want to do any business? Today he has a son, he has family, he has business, he has stakeholders and if he chooses to walk the path that will be a very small and short term step to try to delay but long term consequences of this will be severe. His business will be wiped out and he will be standing the risk of becoming a non-entity.So, in my view somebody like Vijay Mallya who claims himself as a global businessman with global assets should come and cooperate with the investigation rather than running away because if you want to be a global businessman or be a player in the market unless you want to choose the life of just being an absconder or just being a non-entity one can do that. However these people can also be brought to the book.