MC Interview | India should be proud of Meesho and Rapido, see potential for $50 billion firms here: Prosus chief Fabricio Bloisi

Speaking ahead of Luminate, a new series of AI-focused events starting in Bengaluru, he makes a case for India's central role in that vision.

"We're not just an investor," he said. "We believe we're building the biggest big tech company outside the US and China — and India can help lead that story."

Prosus already has a notable exposure in India, where it has pumped in $8.6 billion and has backed Meesho, Swiggy, Rapido, PayU, Urban Company, PharmEasy, Eruditus, BlueStone, among 30 other companies.

Edited excerpts: 

You were announced as CEO in May last year and took charge officially a couple of months after that. What has year one been like, amid all the action in AI? And how do you view India, among other global markets you operate in?

I'm super excited, I'm also super busy, it was a crazy year. I'm working as much as when I started like a 10 people company many years ago and that's amazing. We have so many good companies all around the world, including our Indian companies that are very good in capabilities that the US doesn't know, or Europe doesn't know.

I'm working on Prosus to share more, to learn more, to become a tech company, not just an investor, and to focus on three ecosystems: Latin America, Europe and India.

I believe the AI revolution is as important as the industrial revolution. So, the big companies you are going to see in 10 years are going to be different than the companies you have today. If a company doesn't adopt AI to serve the customer better, to operate cheaper, to have new products, they are going to lose market share.

Give us a sense of how you see the tech investment cycle playing out globally. Because you say that you don't just want to be an investor, you want to be a tech company. How is Prosus going to navigate this whole AI cycle?

What we don't do is just put lots of money into many companies. So Prosus has more than 2 billion customers all around the world. We can invest in an AI company so that we can use our 2 billion customers to distribute their products to our customers and therefore the company is going to grow more and our offerings in these markets are going to grow more. Also, we can use our learnings from Brazil, from Europe, from Africa to share with these AI companies.

That's what we are trying to do. I think also internally we have a lot of AI knowledge. For example, we are developing what we call a large commerce model where we train a new model using all data inside one of our companies.

In your shareholder letter a few days ago, you spoke about India, about how this is a key market. You've invested over $8.6 billion. What can we expect in the next five years? Will $8.6 billion become, say, $15 billion in five years?

$8.6 billion will become $50 billion. Not in terms of investments but in terms of market value. That's my focus. I can invest a few more billion dollars. So, we will invest a billion dollars in India. But we are thinking big. We have transformation happening, technology through AI. We have India as an amazing market that is very big. We must think exponentially.

And $50 billion over what time frame?

A few years. We don't have a good number now, but I think if it's more than three years, it's too far away. So, let's move faster. India likes to move faster. Brazil likes to move faster. Let's do it. The value of the portfolio is currently under $10 billion for us in India.

In terms of themes, quantum of investment, size of deals, again, how will you look at India?

We have a lot of flexibility. We can invest five million dollars in a startup. We can invest a billion dollars in a much bigger company.

We want to invest in companies that we can help to grow more. We see it's a flywheel that starts with food delivery and payment, because these are very high frequency areas. So, if you win in food delivery and payment, we have the foundation to create business on top of that. And on top of that, our focus is e-commerce and experiences.

So today we have already more than 30 companies here in India, I think 35, and we are going to keep looking for companies in those areas, food delivery, payments, fintech, e-commerce and experience that we believe, that together with us, we can make those companies grow faster.

Last year was a milestone year for you with Swiggy's IPO. This year, there's going to be IPOs of Meesho, Urban Company and Bluestone. Will you look at taking some money off the table, like what you did with Swiggy, where you took out $550 million?

I want to put money on the table to grow much more in India, to make India grow faster. However, that said, we have many IPOs this year, around five companies this year. So, we are very excited that some of the bets we made in the last two years, a few of the bets were made like four, five, six years ago, they are becoming more mature now. So, the moment is not like to take money off the table, the moment is to build a real big leader in India.

Tell us about Swiggy, because Prosus is the biggest investor there with around 25% stake. They are battling it on the one hand with food delivery, and on the other hand with quick commerce. Directionally, where do you see Swiggy? How bullish are you about them?

Swiggy is a success with 10 years of history, and their story is super interesting, and because of the size and potential of India, I believe it's just starting.

The quick commerce business of Swiggy has more success here in India than in most parts of the world, so I think the world can learn what they are doing here. There are also challenges, because many quick commerce companies are still investing, but we are very confident because we've been through so many cycles that sometimes we have some investment cycle, then we have the phase of see the growth and the maturity of the business. I think Swiggy is doing very well in food delivery, we are very confident with the numbers. Swiggy is very innovative and doing well on quick commerce.

We are very confident, we have many companies where we can learn a few things and try to share with Swiggy, that's what we are trying to do.

Right, quick commerce is unique. It worked in India, whereas it failed in many parts of the world. But it's also very competitive, so Swiggy Instamart is competing with Blinkit and Zepto. Again, do you think this is a three-player race, or a four-player race, because most internet companies are usually winner takes all, where there are one or two winners in the end.

I don't think that those markets are a winner take all, many of them you have two or three, even three players. I think the world lives in cycles, I don't know if you remember that, but like five years ago everyone was investing billions in quick commerce, in the world it's reduced, right now India is investing billions in quick commerce, the world is not investing billions in quick commerce right now.

I think we are in a phase of expansion here, there will be other phases here, so I'm not worried that everyone, it's super competitive, yes, some people are going to win, for example us, Swiggy, and then we are going to keep moving to a different phase in the future.

Do you think an acquisition could have helped them, could they have acquired maybe another player to solidify their presence, someone like a Zepto?

I think they are doing well right now, they are doing quite well with Instamart, so we are happy about what they are doing today.

ALSO READ: MC Exclusive: Prosus plans five IPOs this year; Sees India portfolio hitting $50 billion within three years: CEO Fabricio Bloisi

Let me also talk about your other bet, Meesho, which is one of the companies that's preparing for an IPO. Again, how bullish are you about Meesho, because they came years after Amazon and Walmart backed Flipkart, and they still managed to pull ahead.

It's amazing to have a story like Meesho, because they are so ninja, creating products and quality and services that...

… At a time when everyone thought e-commerce was done?

Yes, like you have two players, then you have a new player that grows, some people think they are number one in a few metrics, so it's a solution for India that really expands the addressable markets of e-commerce. That's the kind of innovation we must have here in India, we are super bullish on Meesho, we love the work they are doing, and again I think they are just starting, there is much more to grow, and I think they are better positioned not just to compete today, but to compete over the next five years. That's the kind of company we want to keep investing in, support and hope we can help them to do even better.

Are you also seeing your portfolio companies, not just in India, but across the world, become more paranoid about AI, infuse AI in every layer, how are you pushing them to do that?

I think if our companies are not paranoid about AI, I will make them paranoid about AI. So, they have no choice. I think every company, I think your viewers here, my question to you, are you paranoid about AI? If you are not, you are late, you should move faster. Why? The world is going to change completely.

Sometimes people think AI is overhyped. I think AI is underhyped.

Are you also excited about what Rapido is doing? Again, a similar story like Meesho, right? Ola, Uber, 2-player market. Where is a third or fourth player going to come from? And yet they came and became a differentiator.

The same story.

… And now they are expanding into food delivery. Might end up competing with Swiggy, which is an investor in Rapido. How are you seeing the dynamic play out?

These comments about these rumors, I don't know anything about that. But this story is the same. I think India should be proud about these two examples. (Meesho and Rapido). It's a local innovation, local technology that grew to become the number one. I think both are just starting. Because their cost structure enables them to serve a billion customers that maybe the other competitors could not serve. If we just help them with money, we are not doing enough. We can take these two companies and show them what we are doing in Brazil, in Europe, in US, in Africa, in China. What enables them to move faster. And it's their merit to move faster. But they can move faster if they have the backing of a global player. That's what we are doing.

We also must ask you about PayU, which is a significant fintech for you in India and is gearing up for an IPO. Are you happy with how they are progressing? Is there more stability at the top there?

We are very bullish in the future of PayU. PayU is an infrastructure payment company in credit now that enables tens of thousands of merchants to do transactions on the internet. We know it's going to keep growing. We know we are going to have much more e-commerce growth, much more demand for people to do online transactions. So, we are very confident about that. I think payment is going to be even more central in our strategy to have a strong Indian ecosystem.

We've spoken about the blockbuster investments, but there have also been some duds. What have those taught you. The scars from say a Byju’s and a PharmEasy, which saw a major cutback in valuation.

PharmEasy is doing well again. It had a few problems and recovered well. If we didn't have these scars, it means that we are not taking enough risks. We are here to build a much bigger company, so we need to take risks, we need to make bets.

People say, but you lost money. Yes, we lost some money in some places, we make money in others. We are just starting our journey. So these scars are part of life.

As someone who has seen the highs and lows of businesses, what's your usual advice to entrepreneurs?

Think big. We are just starting. There is so much innovation ahead. There is so many opportunities ahead. This is the best moment to create an amazing company. We just talked about two examples of companies starting from here and are leading their markets. Everything is just starting. Exponential growth is just starting. So go there and do it. That's the best moment to do that. Enjoy the ride.

And what does Fabricio do when he's not running Prosus and Naspers? What are your other passions and hobbies? You're from Brazil. So, is football something that you really enjoy?

I'm a very strange Brazilian.

You don't like football?

I'm the only Brazilian that doesn't talk a lot about football, soccer. But I love running and going to the gym. And I really love going to a desert, or an island, and staying by myself in nature. So, I like to go hiking and walking. I like to do my nature trips. I must find a nature trip to do here in India.