I-banker turned author Nishtha Anand on why corporate India still remains a man's game

Nishtha, the lack of diversity in workplaces and challenges women face is rather well-known. But what prompted you to take that extra step to write a book about it?

I got the idea when I was pregnant three years ago. I have been a gold medallist and rank-holder through and through, and worked across Asia in investment banking and strategy. And I always found that I didn’t have any relatable women role models around me, especially in my field. At investment banks, women are mostly in legal, operational or HR roles. And then when I worked across sectors, I would often be the only woman in the room. 

When I was pregnant, my husband Naren and I were both going to have the baby right? But I was given the advice that I should focus on my pregnancy and take a break from work. And that didn’t make sense to me. Why couldn’t I have the best of both? And most of what I read talked about what a woman should do in order to have a career, but not much on what people around you need to do. That’s the most important part I wanted to highlight. I wanted to write something for Indian women because they are facing this peculiar situation, juggling parents, in-laws, kids, society and a corporate workplace. 

I am not trying to start a revolution in the name of equality, but I want this to be a practical handbook. I didn’t want to be emotional or bitter about it. 

Your challenges are common. But most women just buckle down and find their own ways to deal with it. What made you write a book?

In my first trimester of pregnancy, I was advised to take a few weeks of bed-rest at a time. Now I was leading an important project for my company, and we had the relevant pregnancy policies in place. Despite this, I was hesitant to share the news openly with people around me. I was very conscious about how I will be perceived and whether people will feel my work is getting affected because I am pregnant. 

And this is despite us being privileged ones – educated, coming from a good background and having so much exposure. That’s when it hit me. I have always been an assertive person, and someone with as much exposure as me is facing this mental block. So imagine what would be happening to most women around me. 

I then read up a lot and the numbers are shocking. Even a field like HR, where we in India feel women are overrepresented, actually has only 30-31% women. And there’s less than 3% women in the C-Suite or in Nifty 50 companies. And I thought, do I want my child to grow up in a world where their opportunities are limited by gender? I don’t want this generation’s child to ask the questions that people in my generation ask. Why wait till 60 to write this? I want to do this now. 

You knew a woman’s challenges and the environment when you were writing this book. But did any of your findings surprise you?

I found out about miscarriage leave while writing this. India offers miscarriage leave, and this is something neither me nor my friends knew about, even those who went through one. In March 2021, miscarriage leave was granted in New Zealand, to a lot of celebration. 

I was surprised that India has all this; as per the Maternity Benefits Act, India gives 6 weeks paid leave if a woman has a miscarriage. Not many know about it and it is not implemented well either. Start educating people. 

But in terms of women’s problems or challenges, what did you learn?

Women feel like the entire onus of the gender is on them, and that they are an exception in their challenges. That puts extra pressure. Stop being so harsh on yourself. Give your passion a chance and start dedicating. Free up your bandwidth at home. 

The choice of whether to enter the professional world – make that from a position of strength. You don't have to be coerced into it. And if you do, you have to be assertive and start demanding that support from your ecosystem -- your in-laws, spouse, house-help, parents. Stop tip-toeing around your biology. Recognise it. 

In the book, you’ve also stressed that women don’t need to and shouldn’t try to have it all. But when you have spoken to Renu Sud Karnad, MD of HDFC, she says the opposite, that you can have it all. How do you make sense of that?

What I mean is delegation. In order to have it all, you have to free up your bandwidth, delegate and prioritise. To have it all, you can’t say I want to be a super-mother and spend all those hours, and then be in office and invest all that time. That is not possible. 

But if a woman chooses to stay at home, could that be seen as a regressive move? Do you then fall into stereotypes or counter the same biases again?

No, that is also a bias. This has happened with me as well, where a friend wanted to take a break from work during pregnancy and I cross-questioned her, asking “Are you sure?”, “Is someone pressuring you to do this?”, and thought she would be wasting her education. Even though I judged her, she was sure, and I later felt ashamed of it. 

But this is a bias driven by the pressure of being a one-off. That you will set a precedent for other women. That’s not the idea. 

You’ve also spoken about job interviews, where women are exclusively asked questions about whether they can work late hours, marriage plans, plans to have a child, etc. And while these questions are certainly biased, employers contend that these are actual challenges. They have to ensure diversity and productivity. Does that make sense?

I had similar views, but the pandemic taught us that you can work from home, and those late nights aren’t always necessary. And sometimes there are safety issues in some cities, you have to work around that. You can’t endanger yourself. 

As Reeba (Chacko, corporate practice head at Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas) says, you have to be comfortable with the choices you make. Interviewees also need to know what is the right organisation for them. 

If you are penalised for this approach, tough luck. You will get the right opportunity if you are good enough.

The problem is the bias that comes with interviewers-- the interviewer is seeing a woman’s CV and wondering, she’s 30, she must be married, she must have these plans, and he sees a man’s CV and has no such thoughts. That bias needs to be removed. Both men and women are entering a marriage. Both are having a child. 

One thing that the book does not mention, but is something I have seen and heard anecdotally, is women bringing other women down. Catty is the colloquial word. Is that something you have seen?

Honestly, I have not. Not in the decade I have worked or in any of the interviews I conducted for this. It is just a narrative that gets talked about. No one tells a man to be less assertive but tells a woman to be more participative. 

If a woman leader gives some negative feedback, she could be construed as saying she doesn’t want any of her juniors to compete with her or rise to the top. But when a male leader gives, it is just seen as negative feedback.

In your interview with Zia Mody, she also talks about not ruling or imposing gender norms with an iron fist. You’ve written about this too, saying you want it to be a practical guide and don’t want it to become an emotional, sensitive or ugly issue. But to really drive change, don’t you have to impose? Be firm? 

What we are trying to say is that you can’t just draft blanket policies that prescribe equality, which is what I mean by iron fist, and say, okay everyone has to follow this. It doesn’t work because no one is tracking it. The gap is execution. 

You have to track data around, say, paternity leave, and see how many people availed it. And if the majority did not, what stopped them? Was it an unconscious bias, that your promotion or evaluation may be affected? 

While women bear the brunt of a skewed gender ratio, lack of equality/diversity harms both genders. For example, men can’t choose to not have careers the way a woman could. It is socially frowned upon. The impact on men, which impacts women again, hasn’t been addressed much in the book. But is this important to the overall discussion?

You’re right, and it is an important point. I have not addressed it per se, but there are places (in the book) where I talk about gender-neutral upbringing. If your son wants to go into a profession not associated with men per se, let them do it. To be a caregiver or breadwinner, let him choose. And similarly, organisations have to be gender-neutral in their decision-making. 

Nishtha, a lot of our discussion, and your book’s content, is about privilege. Poor gender diversity is a deep-rooted problem in India, not just in corporate workplaces. A lot of households, especially in smaller cities and towns, suffer from lack of basic facilities and skewed gender dynamics. How do you tackle that? Because your book is mostly about corporate India, which is a small part of India.

Sriram, you will be surprised, the employment rate in rural India is higher than urban India. There women have to work for sustenance. The problem there is not of women not working, but having marginalised roles. The problem is different. In corporate India, the problem is women leaking out of the system.

So you’re right, this book is addressed to women who want to work, but because of society’s biases or limitations, aren’t able to. But the book is broad-based because of the digital transformation which has happened in India recently. It will help digital influencers, content creators, and solo-preneurs, for instance. But yes, the unorganised sector and rural India are not covered here.

To sum things up, what would your advice to women be?

If you have a passion, find time to pursue it. Smartly delegate. Start asking for help. Question the status quo.

And what would your advice to men be?

You should question the status quo too if you aren’t living the best version of your life. Raise your voice if you see some bias. Don’t let it slide.